Avendale School in Exile - A Bravenet.com Forum

Caya (age 21, Denmark)

Nov 30, 07 - 1:39 AM

Innocent fascination

Surfing on the internet can work in mysterious ways...

All of a sudden I am lead to a site talking about "Aristasia" and I cannot help but to start reading with a mixture of dull boredom and meak interest. As my eyes scan the first two paragraphs, however, my interest grows and I am fascinated to discover a whole new world that repressents everything that I miss in what you call "the Pit": elegance, aesthetics, sisterhood, discipline, mutual respect, good manners and etiquette...

As I read on, I get more and more confused though. What exactly IS Aristasia? I see images of a virtual world, digital imaginary people who socialize through computerscreens. Also there are links to television shows depicting interviews and documentaries with Aristasians. What is real and what isn't?

There are flags representing different sections of Aristasia...countries? Eras? I do not quite understand it.

Is Aristacia an imaginary roleplay world consisting of departments ruled by a complex hierchial matriarchy? Or are these heads-of-departments in reality something spiritual and not "real" persons?

I try in vain to decipher the meaning of the following website in order to understand what Aristasia is: http://www.aristasia.co.uk/index.html

...But to someone who has never heard of all this before, it is too vague and non-specific to understand - not to mention all of the new terms and strange words ;)

I have loads of questions to ask and hope that you will help me get a better understanding.

1) Is Aristacia "real" in the sense that real women actually meet face to face and have this lifestyle 24/7? Is it "just" a roleplay scenario which a small "community" or even just partners play for a little while when the mood is right? Is it "just" another corner of the virtual reality industry "Second Life" ...or something entirely different all together?

2) If you DO meet face to face, is it then only in the UK? Or are other parts of the world involved?

3) How many Aristasians are there approximately? I have never heard of you before...

4) I read here and there that you are not neccesarily a gay/bi-sexual community...but if you don't acknowledge men, I'd think that a loving relationship to a vibrator would be a sad relationship to have. (Sorry about being so "blunt" - I cannot help being a little puzzled on this point).

5) It seems to me that you do not "like" the BDSM community or at least do not identify yourself with their turn ons and offs. Yet, you still practise disciplin and even joke a little around with it. Is the disciplin in no way at all connected to the individual's sexuality? And why would discipline be accepted if it wasn't mutually satisfying?

6)These personae of which you speak, are they active 24/7? Do you chose to have several or just one? Would it be wrong to draw a parallel to the BDSM term "switch" in this context?

7) How is it possible to live a "normal" life if you're really REALLY involved in these Aristasian beliefs? How is your view on men?

8) What is Telluria? I have read this term quite a few times now and still have not found a definition.

9) Your religion and the "names" and terms connected with it seems very Eastern-inspired in my point of view. From where do your beliefs originate?

10) How far do Aristasian beliefs date back?

I know that many of these questions must seem borderline ignorant and simple - but like I said, I have only just discovered your "world" and there are no such pages in Danish, so a kindergarten-level explanation would be much appreciated ;)

Lots of warm thoughts,

Caya

Mengxia Yu

Nov 30th, 2007 - 3:34 AM

Re: Innocent fascination

It is an honour to meet you, Miss Cala!

I will try my best to answer the questions I can, but as one of the newer girls I am not as knowledgeable.

1. It is real in different ways for different people. Some girls do live in Aristasian communities 24/7/365. Some only ever access Aristasia through Virtualia. Aristasia is more than a roleplay scenario or a corner of Second Life.

It is helpful if you think of "real" as something that exists, not something that can be experienced with the five senses. An idea in your mind cannot be weighed or measured, or even touched, but it is very real. I have found this is helpful for trying to grasp the reality of Aristasia Pura.

2. Not at all. There are Aristasians in Canada, America, Italy, the Netherlands...

3. I do not know.

4. I believe your confusion comes from the definition of the word "loving" that you are working with. I cannot speak for all of Aristasia on this point, but I personally do not equate s*xual relationships with happiness. We don't look for satisfaction in replacing men with s*xual toys. We base loving relationships (the article about amity ought to be helpful) on things like trust and feelings--not necessarily physical pleasure.

5. My answer to this question relates to #4. Again, I am not sure if I can speak for Aristasia, but the way I see it, the point of discipline is not the physical sensation of being punished. It is the self-improvement that comes from it. Most Aristasian households do not practice physical discipline at all. As far as non-physical discipline goes--well, how else are standards of behaviour going to be upheld? Discipline can be kind and gentle while still being effective.

6. I do not know. I am not familiar with the BDSM term "switch."

7. If one is "really REALLY involved," a 24/7 resident of Aristasia, then Aristasian life IS normal life. Venturing into Telluria or the Pit would be abnormal, even shocking. As for me...being Aristasian has become like being short, or being female. It is not something I have to consciously change into; it is part of what I am. Proper clothes or up-to-date music are the ways we express our Aristasian-ness. Put me in blue jeans and a T-shirt and plop me down in the middle of a Pit-slum, and I am not any less an Aristasian.

I doubt any Aristasian would argue that the fact that men do not exist in Aristasia Pura means that we are excused in being awful toward the men we meet. If they behave themselves, I can tolerate their company. I have actually known some very kind and gentle men, mostly priests. I would prefer the company of ladies, but whatever her reason, God saw fit for me to be born in a world with masculi in it.

8. Telluria is the planet Earth. It is not the same thing as the Pit.

9. This is such a big question, I think I shall save an attempt at answering it for later, or for some more knowledgeable pette.

10. I do not know.

I am sorry I'm not more helpful! I hope I was able to answer some of your questions (and answer them correctly), and I hope that another pette can fill in the gaps I've left.

Padraica Yatsenko

Nov 30th, 2007 - 6:07 AM

Re: Innocent fascination

Miss Caya said:

6)These personae of which you speak, are they active 24/7? Do you chose to have several or just one? Would it be wrong to draw a parallel to the BDSM term "switch" in this context?

Miss Caya, I beg your indulgence as I attempt to answer both as a Tellurian gender theorist and an Aristasian friend.

*Sensible blondes, please note - Some of the perspectives in this response are inappropriate. Please ask a guardian to advise you.*

The fact that you have invoked the concept of "switch" roles in BDSM is very telling - no doubt you have been exploring many pieces of media that overemphasize the nature of corporal discipline (spanking, caning, birching,) in Aristasia. Miss Yu is correct in saying that not every Aristasian or Aristasian household makes a practice of it, but it is an influential topic in the Aristasian world.

Now, to draw parallel between switches and Aristasian personae... I have been told that some pettes have the need or desire to express more than one side of their feminine persona, and thus will move about as a chelana (blonde) or melini (brunette) to create a differently gendered terrain when necessary. It is not a common way of navigating Aristasia, but it has been known to happen, as I have learned.

This would, from a theoretical perspective, run parallel to the concept of a BDSM switch if it weren't for the connotation of s*xual power and control balance that generally motivates a BDSM switch. For instance, a blonde would not simply become a brunette all for the sake of embodying one part of a typical brunette profile that she feels would satisfy her persona. Blondes and brunettes have unique interests and personal characters, as well, and there is no need to assume one or the other at will like doffing a bonnet and replacing it with a boater.

From the perspective of an Aristasian friend, I can infer, from my enlargeningly extensive reading, that the Tellurian body-politic of BDSM is not commonly known in Aristasia. Among more worldly brunettes and curious blondes, the public exhibitionism sometimes associated with BDSM and its banal s*xual objectification is considered odd and distasteful. Such things are generally not discussed in polite company in Aristasia.

~*~
Miss Padraica Yatsenko

Lady Aquila

Nov 30th, 2007 - 10:12 AM

Re: Innocent fascination

Rayati, honoured Miss Caya.

Your questions are intelligent and well thought-out; and may I congratulate Yu-chei and Miss Yatsenko on their absolutely splendid answers.

Miss Caya, I do sympathise with your initial confusion. Aristasia is a whole culture that works entirely within its own terms of reference. It is not easy to understand from outside, but as one begins to grasp any one part, it sheds light on all the others. And so the process of understanding speeds up exponentially once it gets under way.

Think of it as visiting a different world.

When we encounter something new, we naturally ask "How does it relate to this or that thing that I already know?" That is the way we process knowledge. It is often helpful, but sometimes it can also be misleading.

In the case of late-Tellurian "alternative cultures" it is very helpful, since all of them are indeed variations on common late-Tellurian themes.

In the case of Aristasia it is usually misleading, because Aristasian culture has very little relation to Tellurian culture, and where parallels exist they are with traditional Tellurian cultures (which come closer to the Universal) rather than with the developments of the post-Eclipse (late 1960s and onwards) culture, which have no equivalent in Aristasia.

I think it is true to say that new girls learning about Aristasia begin by seeking parallels with Tellurian phenomena and, as they learn more, drop them one by one as they realise that they are of very limited relevance (even though they may have helped them to form their very early impressions, if only by contrast).

In Telluria, Aristasia has had a presence since the mid-1970s. Obviously, then, it long pre-dates things like "Second Life". Aristasians consciously sought out Virtual Reality platforms as a means of deploying Aristasian life for an increasingly international community.

Many Aristasians, however, operate only "on the ground" and have little, if any, contact with Aristasia-in-Elektraspace. Some live their entire life within Aristasia and some do not.

On your questions 4-6, it is necessary to understand that current Telluria tends to place a great overemphasis on s*x, and people tend to define their identity in terms of "s*xuality". There are various reasons for this, such as the erosion of more traditional bases of identity and the "Freudian" approach to human existence which is predicated on the popular-Darwinist "animal-thesis".

That is another subject! But suffice it to say that s*x plays a far smaller role in Atistasian self-definition, both in Pura and Telluria, than it does in late Western Telluria.

Aristasian relationships are strongly based on the many variations of Amity (go here for this important concept) rather than s*x. Some Aristasians in Telluria are happily married of course (blondes to brunettes), but marriage [or its equivalents] is not considered the only means, or even the primary means, of bonding.

On question 9 - Aristasian linguistics are an interesting subject and one that is not yet fully understood. At one time it was assumed that Herthelan Westrenne (the Western dialect of Aristasia Pura) was very similar to modern English, on a parallel-world basis. In recent years some doubt has been cast on that and it has been suggested that English is only a sort of equivalent to Westrenne.

We have inherited a lot of words from Raihiralan (a term for the Estrenne dialect of East Novaria and West "Amazonia") which seem to be related to the Indo-European stock - often closer to the Sanskrit end (although this is perhaps less the case than it seems, since words close to Indo-European roots tend to sound "Sanskritish" to West-Tellurian ears without necessarily being any more proto-Sanskrit than they are proto-Celtic or proto-Germanic).

Now, by the same token as Westrenne being only equivalent to English, it is possible that the roots of our Raihiralan words are only equivalent to Indo-European roots. If so, it would seem that a quite exact transposition has taken place, understandable in the light of the traditional science of hermeneutics (which deals with the inner metaphysical core of language).

I am sorry - this last part has become a little complex, but you have raised matters I have long been pondering!

To return more directly to your question, Aristasian religion is traditional and really no more "Eastern" than "Western in Tellurian terms, except that the Tellurian East has tended to preserve Universal concepts more faithfully than the Tellurian West, certainly over the last millennium or so.

Rather a wide-ranging canter, I fear, but I hope it is helpful.

Caya (age 21, Denmark)

Nov 30th, 2007 - 1:25 PM

Re: Innocent fascination

Dear Mengxia Yu, Padraica Yatsenko and Lady Aquila,

Thank you for all of your clarifying answers. I have enjoyed reading them and feel that I have gotten a much better understanding of Aristasia.

I do realise that my questions have been very "blunt" and uninhibited. In a normal conversation I would probably not bring up such private matters as sexuality, but on a discussion forum on the face-less internet I could not resist the temptation.

Bear in mind that yesterday when I wrote the initial thread, the only impression I had of Aristasians was created based on a mixture of a homepage (which used so many new and unexplaned terms that I could hardly make sense of what was written), a wikipedia definition and a series of youtube clips from an old television show in which the whole matter of discipline and corporal punishment is clearly overemphasized. I understand why that "strategy" was chosen as it is easy to draw a lot of media attention and PR towards Aristasia when focussing on subjects that are taboo, atypical or deviating from what is considdered to be "normal".

The downside of this is obviously that "new" girls and just curious/fascinated people like myself, probably tend to get an unbalanced impression of what your lifestyle in reality is like vs. that which is represented in the media.

Dear Mengxia Yu,

I cannot help noticing the fact that you mention "tolerating" the company of men. I myself, cannot imagine a real world without the masculine sex...not neccesarily for sexually gratifying purposes, but due to symbiosis and a love for differences. I do realise that Aristasians have defined "new" sexes when it comes to blondes and brunettes, but can these be happily "replaced" with the contrasting male vs. female?

The word feminine represents beauty, warmth, sensitivity, elegance, order and dignity to me whereas I tend to think of "primitivity, physical strenght, show off-ish behaviour...but also warmth, bonding, security and playful attitudes" when it comes to the word "masculine". I don't that either sex is "perfect" or that males cannot be sensitive and dignified or that females cannot be playful and primitive.

...But a world consisting solely of women would definately put a lid on most of the more negative masculine traits.

Dear Lady Aquila,

I notice that you greet me in a somewhat exotic manner: "Rayati". What does this mean and from where does the expression originate? Having quasi-lexofiliac tendensies, my first guess would be Indian?

When I read all of your answers and combine that impression with the one that I have gotten from other internetsources, it seems to me that it is somewhat typical of your lifestyle to be eloquent and wellspoken. Are there any statistics about the typical educational backgrounds of Aristasians or is it simply an expression of the love of good manners and being polite?

Lots of warm thoughts and thanks again for all of your enlightening replies.

Caya

Lady Aquila

Nov 30th, 2007 - 2:52 PM

Re: Innocent fascination

Rayati again, honoured Miss Caya.

"Rayati" is an Aristasian word. It is the standard Aristasian Greeting, and means "hail to the sun (in you)". It refers to the doctrine that the heart in each maid is a menayerthing - a "little incarnation" - of the Supernal Sun Herself.

The greeting "Rayati" is normally accompanied by a reverence - a bow or curtsey - honouring the solar divinity of the other person.

The word is a form of "Raya", which means both "Sun" and "Lady" (in the "lord" sense). As a lexophiliac you may be interested in Tellurian cognates of this word, which you will find here.

Quite how Tellurian cognates of Aristasian words "work" is a complex matter that I began to discuss in my last post here.

Without wishing to trespass on honoured Yu-chei's reply, I should say that if the masculine/feminine (schizomorphic) dichotomy seems to you essential, then Aristasia is not your sole spiritual home. Which does not mean that you are not warmly welcome here - for you most certainly are. Many "part-time Aristasians" no doubt feel similarly.

However for a full, or "plenary", Aristasian, whether an Exile or an Adoptee, this dichotomy does not feel essential, but rather part of an alien scheme of things.

On the other hand, the melinic/chelanic (blonde-brunette) dichotomy does seem natural and indeed contains the yin-yang balance upon which all fundamental dualities are based. Curiously enough, today's piece in the Chapel Chronicle touches on this very matter. You will find it here:

Is God Blonde or Brunette?

Your comments on our eloquence are more than kind! We try to speak and think in clear and elegant ways, for that is the way of thamë - the Golden Order.

It is also true that Aristasians in Telluria tend to be of the Haiela and Raihira Estates. This is perhaps because Magdala and Paccia maidens are less likely to be deployed by the Motherland on a mission such as Operation Bridgehead.

Mengxia Yu

Nov 30th, 2007 - 4:11 PM

Re: Innocent fascination

Honoured Miss Caya, I don't think you need to apologize at all! You are asking these questions because you want to learn, not because you want to shock someone with the subject of your questions! How shall you ever learn if you do not ask? We might write some things like s*x to make ourselves feel more comfortable, but please do not be afraid that we will think less of you!

Honoured Miss Aquila has answered your question to me far better than I could have!

Maybe "tolerate" wasn't the best choice of words, but it seemed right at the time. I've found, more and more over the years (before I knew anything about Aristasia) that I don't get anything unique from male company that I could not get from female company. I get uncomfortable around men in general; as honoured Aquila-chei said, they seem like alien creatures. They have always seemed that way, but before coming to Aristasia I used to think that there was something wrong with me for not understanding them. Now I understand that this was the Pit telling its female inhabitants that they cannot be happy unless they are having s*x with men.

That is not to say that there aren't any men at all, anywhere in the world, whose company is worthwhile! For example, the adviser I chose to guide me in a very important project for school is male. I think of him like another grandparent--but he is unusual in this. (He is so very kind, I wonder if he is somehow a feminine soul trapped in a masculine body.) He is an important person to me, not because he's male, but because he's a person. I think we all think highly of a certain few men, like the Dalai Lama.

Sushuri Madonna

Nov 30th, 2007 - 6:13 PM

Re: Innocent fascination

May I insert a brief oar?

Welcome, honoured Miss Caya and rayati!

I agree (I usually do) with Yu-chei. Being a plenary Aristasian does not entail thinking that masculi are bad or inferior. It just entails thinking that they are part of a world-system that is not one's own.

Aristasians often quote traditional patriarchal authorities with respect; in fact we have a great deal less hostility toward them than many Tellurian feminists.

Someone has said that Aristasians do not find men important enough to hate - in a sense that may be true, but there are certainly less man-haters in Aristasia than in certain areas of Tellurian life!

It seems to me that the important thing about masculi is whether or not they are gentlemen. If they are, there can be a high degree of mutual respect - always bearing in mind that good fences make good neighbours!

Unfortunately, the Pit discourages gentlemen almost as strongly as it discourages ladies.

I also wanted to comment on honoured Lady Aquila's brief mention of "the popular-Darwinist animal thesis" in relation to s*xual attitudes.

What this means is - put very crudely - "If maid is merely an 'extended animal', then her affections must be rooted not in the spiritual world she has imagined in the unenlightened past, but merely in the animal urge to procreate"

Crude as this statement may seem, if this thesis were removed from the modern Tellurian psyche, the whole structure of its current assumptions about what a human being is, and what "s*x" is would come down like a house of cards.

That is one of the reasons why bongos who have no other interest in, or knowledge of, theoretical biology, become so agitated whenever they hear Darwinist theories criticised.

Without the "animal thesis" it would be necessary to return to an older view of human affections - one that was more romantic and mystical: for the means would be lacking to subject them to a perpetual process of gross and banal reductionism.

We should have to begin to understand - or to admit that we do not understand - the metaphysical depths of the human emotions, rather than to comfortably write them off as a coat of paint on a breeding-machine.

To a Philistine society, life without the animal thesis would be a truly terrifying prospect.

Caya

Dec 1st, 2007 - 1:41 AM

Re: Innocent fascination

Once again I thank you all for all of your comments and for taking the time to "go down on my level" in order to clarify and explain your lifestyle in a way that a novice can understand ;)

Dear Lady Aquila,

I enjoyed reading the article "The name of Sai Raya" that you recommended. I have a tendency to "fall in love" with why, "from where", how, and when-questions when a topic catches my interest.

I shall take the liberty of quoting a passage of your message:

"Without wishing to trespass on honoured Yu-chei's reply, I should say that if the masculine/feminine (schizomorphic) dichotomy seems to you essential, then Aristasia is not your sole spiritual home. Which does not mean that you are not warmly welcome here - for you most certainly are. Many "part-time Aristasians" no doubt feel similarly."

In reply, I can only honestly say that I have never tried to create an illusion that Aristasia IS my spiritual home at all. I considder myself to be merely fascinated, curious and interested.

The fact that Aristasia emphasizes noble values and feminine beauty vs. this horribly cold and antisocial world is of great interest to me.

I think it is sad to see children not wanting to spend time playing outside, but instead prefering to sit on a couch in front of the television. I do not like the fact that less and less families spend time together instead of just locking their respective doors and get entertained individually by technology.

Do not misunderstand. I love technology in many aspects and have even devoted my studies to science...but I do not think that machines should ever replace socialization with another human being (regardless of biological sex in my own point of view).

I also think that it is sad to see so many woman trying to adapt to a male-dominated world. Why be afraid to be feminine both in spirit and in a visual sense? How come more and more women hide away in baggy pants and shirts that are sewn with a male cut?
Why submit to the typical unwritten law that males are the dominant sex and females submissive housewives?

I do not considder myself a feminist per se and have, like I said, nothing against men in general. I just do not like the priciple that many men still considder themselves to be superior to women - in fact, I do not tolerate that attitude at all.

Also I like Aristasian ways because of the elegance and style. I adore the fact that foul language and vulgarity is not tolerated and I enjoy the polite and respectful tone very much: not that I am dry and cold, but I believe that it is possible to joke around and to have fun without sounding like a caveman.

On these points I find Aristasia to be fascinating, but like I said, I never had the illusion that Aristasia is my spiritual home. I do not know much about spirituality in general but do reluctantly admit that not everything can be explained by formulas and mathematical calculations ;)

Dear Mengxia Yu,

I appreciate that you are being so openhearted and willing to "feed" my curiousity in a positive and constructive way. Hmm...reading this last sentence makes me wonder if one can "feed" curiosity in English or if it is just another of my direct Danish translations. Do ask if you are ever in doubt about what I am trying to say ;)

I do not know if I get anything unique out of the company of men that I can not get from a woman in a mental sense. Like you say, we are like two different races. The trouble is that there are many elements that men CAN provide just as well as a woman can in a relationship (platonic or otherwise), but often they neglect to do so.

There are many men that I personally think highly of - not only spiritual leaders such as the Dalai Lama (to use your example) but also a lot of personal friends of mine.

Dear Sushuri Madonna,

I did not wish to give the impression that men are inferior - but I most definately do not agree with the other way around either ;) Like you state, they are "different" than us and on many occations I enjoy these differences. I am interested in "people" in general: different types, atypical and archstereotypes alike.

That being said, I prefer beings who conduct themselves in an orderly and respectful manner.

Might I ask how come it is that you censure the word "sex"? I do not wish to offend anyone, so feel free to correct me and I shall follow your example on this subject. To me "sex" is not a vulgar issue (neither word or action for that matter), but rather a warm and natural thing that does not seem in any way inappropriate to acknowledge. Do Aristasians generally censure words connected to erotisism?

Once again I take the liverty of quoting a passage:

"Without the "animal thesis" it would be necessary to return to an older view of human affections - one that was more romantic and mystical: for the means would be lacking to subject them to a perpetual process of gross and banal reductionism"

Caya

Dec 1st, 2007 - 1:54 AM

Re: Innocent fascination

I hereby continue my last message as I reached the sign-limit and had to post an unfinished comment.

I do not understand the belief that completely natural urges and biological "needs" should be described as something gross and unheard of. Is it not a matter of how rather than when/if? One cannot generalize sex as being primitive and dirty in a bad way. At least, I do not think so. Human affections and the need to be intimate is quite a beautiful thing. I am not saying that the porn industry portrays the matter in a downright flattering and wonderful way - not at ALL. But when it comes to intime acts between persons who love eachother, then I can not see anything banal and gross about the matter in anyway.

Sincerely,

Caya

Mengxia Yu

Dec 1st, 2007 - 3:52 AM

Re: Innocent fascination

Honoured Miss Caya:

I think your English is very good. You have excellent spelling and grammar, and so far you haven't left me confused at all. I think curiosity can indeed be fed.

Saying that we censure the word "sex" would imply that we're not allowed to use it, which isn't the case. Personally, I write it s*x because it makes me uncomfortable to spell the whole thing out! I almost wonder if I should go back to the regular spelling, because the dark * makes it stand out on the page.

Having never had s*x nor felt the desire to do so, it might be hypocritical of me to try to persuade someone that s*x is not very important. It is hard for me to understand why someone would want it! I do not even understand "making out," as the Pit phrases it. I can try to explain why I do not feel like I am missing out on anything. Keep in mind that I am speaking for myself, not for Aristasia.

Why can't I generalize frequent s*x as something primitive? (After all, generalizations are just that--general, not absolute!) I am comparing two relationships in my head: one founded entirely on s*x, the other founded entirely on amity. The second sounds much stronger to me. I have heard it said that there are important emotional bonds made through s*x; if these bonds are so important, can't they be made through non-physical means as well?

How strong can a relationship be if it springs from making certain body parts line up and certain hormones trigger? What will happen to that relationship if the physical pleasure of s*x is removed? It seems like a terribly unreliable thing to hold a relationship together.

I see occasional s*x as the means by which Tellurian children are made. When used for that, it could be a beautiful thing. (In which case the act of creating life is beautiful, but the act of s*x itself is not.) To take such a beautiful thing--the means for creating life!--and use it for pleasure and physical stimulation seems downright profane. It would be like drinking holy water with a snack because it tasted good.

Ultimately, I am not a very good authority on s*x. I hope something in there will be helpful.

Sushuri Madonna

Dec 1st, 2007 - 11:57 AM

Re: Innocent fascination

Rayati. My oar becomes less brief, it seems!

Thank you, Miss Caya, for your intelligent and interesting questions. This is a very stimulating discussion and your enquiring mind is much appreciated. And as Yu-chei says, your English is clear and excellent. I only wish I could speak another language half as well as you speak English!

Like Yu-chei, I have never had conjugal relations and never had the desire to do so. Nor do I believe I ever shall.

This does not mean I have no "erotic" feelings. I can certainly feel something that is at least quasi-erotic, but I should have no desire to translate that into physical "consummation".

I also believe that such feelings are not linked to some repressed desire for physical "consummation"; for I believe that the animal part of maid is only one part, and - as your Plato taught - the "erotic" impulse has its true origin in what he called "the Divine Eros" (what we should call Sai Sushuri) and is only mirrored rather imperfectly in the carnal desires which humans share with animals.

Now please do not misunderstand me. When I use words like "carnal" and "animal" I am not implying that physical desire is wrong. It has its natural place in the Tellurian scheme of things (and in the Aristasian scheme too). That place has to do with: a) procreation and b) the mirroring on a physical level of "the Divine Eros".

Unfortunately, the "animal thesis" tells modern people that the animal desire - the last and lowest reflection of Sai Sushuri - is the source and origin of all desire: because after all, people are only evolved animals, and any higher spiritual interpretation was merely added onto the "realities" millions of years later.

What you must understand is that Aristasians are approaching this matter from an entirely different point of view. You may not share that point of view, but we shall be talking at cross-purposes if you do not understand what it is.

We do not believe that maid began as a physical body, but that she ENDED as one. Her true origins are elsewhere, and her animal nature is not her source and origin, but only a very late "incarnation in the flesh" (as a logophile you will recognise that as a tautology, but I say it for clarity!) of a spiritual being.

Does this mean that we are "anti-s*x". No, not at all. Yu-chei and I have no desire for that particular activity, and this may have something to do with our being Aristasians [because: a) Aristasians do not procreate as regularly as Tellurians and marriage is not the "normal condition", though it is very common; and b) it is possible that the Tellurian sexual nature does not appeal to us because we are not Tellurian - although I know some Aristasians can use Tellurian sexuality as a "translation" of Aristsaian sexuality, even as Tellurian language can be a "translation" of Aristasian language].

Oh dear - I am getting complicated! there are so many aspects to this!

So why do we star out s*x? The use of the term "s*x" to mean "conjugal intercourse" is not a traditional one. It was coined in the 1920s by D.H. Lawrence, and it is closely bound up with attitudes which Mr. Lawrence helped to popularise and which became the common coinage of the West after the 1960s.

This usage became so prevalent, that the word "sex", meaning one of the two human sexes, male and female, became almost unusable and the grammatical term "gender" had to be borrowed for that meaning (actually Aristasians distinguish philosophically between "sex" and "gender", but that is another matter).

When we take two statements:

1) "S*x is natural"

and

2) "S*x is primitive"

Actually both those statements are saying the same thing - one with a positive bias and one with a negative.

But both, from the Aristasian point of view, are wrong. Because both are based on the animal thesis.

"S*x is natural" means that maid is an animal and should follow nature.

"S*x is primitive" means maid has grown out of being an animal and should not be governed by mere nature.

To an Aristasian, "primitive maid" is something closer to an angel than any maid we have seen. We prefer the term Primordial Maid to avoid confusion.

Sex is certainly natural, and because of that it is not primitive, because maid's descent into "nature" is a relatively late episode in her history.

Oh dear. I have rambled and rambled, and my thoughts are in no sort of order, but I hope this sheds some light on why we think the way we do.

Finally, I would say that I believe that - both in Aristasia and Telluria - conjugal activity belongs firmly where that term implies. Inside marriage.

Sushuri Madonna

Dec 1st, 2007 - 12:10 PM

Re: Innocent fascination

P.S.

My apologies - I did not directly address this point:

Once again I take the liverty of quoting a passage:

"Without the "animal thesis" it would be necessary to return to an older view of human affections - one that was more romantic and mystical: for the means would be lacking to subject them to a perpetual process of gross and banal reductionism"

I do not understand the belief that completely natural urges and biological "needs" should be described as something gross and unheard of.

Please understand that the words "gross and banal" were not intended to describe conjugal love itself.

What is gross and banal is not that activity, but the modern ideology that reduces all human affection and all the subtle and mysterious ramifications of human love to mere by-products of an animal urge.

That is gross and banal - not the urge itself.

A Shy Enquiress

Dec 1st, 2007 - 12:52 PM

Re: Innocent fascination

Would I be right in saying that the Aristasian view does not necessarily oppose evolution even though it opposes the "popular evolution myth-story" and the "animal thesis"?

I mean that the human body might have evolved up to a certain point, after which maid entered it "from above".

Is that possible?

Perhaps even it was at that point that masculs started to exist.

ladt Aquila

Dec 1st, 2007 - 8:42 PM

Re: Innocent fascination

Rayati again, honoured Miss Caya.

I agree with very much of what you say.

I should explain that I was not suggesting that you either did, or should, consider Aristasia to be your primary spiritual home. I was merely attempting in my artless way to suggest that such questions as whether a world without the female/male dichotomy seems "whole" or emotionally satisfying may depend upon which world one belongs to.

One who regards herself as primarily or fundamentally Aristasian does not consider herself to be a woman (which is a member of one half of the female/male dichotomy); she considers herself to be either a chelana or a melini (that is, a member of one half of the chelan/melin dichotomy).

Even though we occupy Tellurian female bodies, we do not actually consider ourselves to be Tellurian femini (women). This does give us a very different perspective. I was not suggesting for a moment that you ought to share that perspective. But if you are enriched by encountering it, we are very happy to have been of some small service.

Honoured Enquiress, pray do not be shy. You are very welcome here.

What you say is certainly possible and I know some others who hold such a view. I do not believe it myself, but that is merely my opinion.

The animal thesis, while it is one corollary of popular Darwinism, is not the only error it supports. Equally important is what in the popular mind is the explanation of form entirely from the side of substance - that is the idea that forms (in biological sphere, species) are not Essences, but can be derived entirely from matter. This is a complex question and is discussed in depth in The Feminine Universe chapters V and VI.

However, as Miss Trent herself shows, not only is metaphysical Essentialism compatible with evolutionary theory, but the idea that evolutionism, even if it were true, could actually explain Form from the side of substance is a popular illusion and goes beyond the logic of any evolutionary theory.

So what I am saying, dear enquiress, is that your suggestion, while it does not accord with my own thinking, is entirely sustainable, and compatible with metaphysics.

Signorina Del Giglio

Dec 3rd, 2007 - 9:15 PM

Re: Innocent fascination

Rayati honoured Miss Caya,

Your questions were really interesting and so were all the answers.

It is my impression (please correct me if I am wrong) that an Aristasian doesn't necessarily have hostility towards masculi per se, not more than towards femins, to begin with. It could have happened to share the planet with a totally peaceful and respectable intermorph race, couldn't it?
But it is after one aknowledges what masculi are responsible for in Telluria, and the odd, agressive, and dangerous patterns those creatures live and react by, the horrors they engender, that one, even without wanting to generalize, ends up by manifesting at least a sound prudence when in front of an unknown mascul (but sometimes, as I recently saw a pette pointed out, also femins can behave in terrible ways which are as alien ans mascul ways).

That is probably why the rare gentleman way of behaving is so much appreciated by Aristasians.
I have a few em-ee-ens on my "list" of admired persons, and they are not only of the gentleman type, they are also spiritual individuals (this means who manifest their subtle nature more than their physical gender).
I have also noticed a "Bodhisattva" type, which is nice because when it manifests it tends to work in opposite direction than the standard selfishness of masculs.
I've had the occasion to read a writing from one of those persons, both gentleman and bodhisattva type, an individual focused on world peace, where he warns femins to be prudent and reveals them that even the kindest of masculs has a wolf inside ready to pop out. I have never really reflected
too much upon those words, but for some reason I remember them now and they make sense. And, he must have said this for a reason.

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