Some of what I'm about to say may be a bit controversial but I feel has to be said more from a practical point of view. with so many RMs in "preservation" and in further commercial operation, there is now an acute shortage of certain components, so much so that buses may well fall by the wayside because of lack of such items.

For instance, brake valves, compressors, some steering components, not to mention body parts for those buses rescued from the dealers up north.

With so many complete buses still around it makes me wonder WHY people try to rescue these hulks from the breakers' yards. I know I've rescues some buses from an untimely end, but if we liken it to the Woodhams steam loco era, we all know that miracles can indeed be made to happen with former scrappers, but look at the costs involved in making parts for a steam loco.

Is it REALLY worth spending similar sums on getting an RM back on the road? I get email requests all the time from people wanting parts to do just this and if i can help I will, but an increasing number are from those who've rescued something that had an Iveco and they want to make it back to original with an AEC engine. First, do you have an AEC engine? Do you have the engine mounts? the header tank/starter/steering pump/alternator?

AEC engines and parts are now very scarce. OK, bearing sets have been made and so have gasket sets, but the AEC engines are increasingly failing through metal fatigue, usually on no.2 big end for some reason. I've known at least 4 RM engines go for that reason, and late last year an RF engine go in the same place.

Almost evry bus I inspect abroad needs many thousands of pounds spending on it to get it back to some semblance of order, most needing accumulators, brake valves, gearboxes, brake linings and drums at least. i must have done a dozen sets of accumulators in the last year, 2 engine changes, 5 gearboxes, 2 diffs...Even simple things like like lift pumps for the Simms and CAV units are hard to come by.

Having been around the preservation scene for over 40 years, I've seen the same scenario with the GS, RF and RTs when they came out of service. Every man and his dog bought one; where are they all now?

To cap it all, my customers abroad still think you can get all the parts for RMs and Lodekkas off the shelf and that there are still hundreds available! They, like a lot of people here, fail to realise these buses are around 50 years old and parts ceased to be produced 40 years ago.

The time will come sooner rather than later when we have to start cannibalising some RMs to keep others going.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Roy Whilst I totally agree with you about the parts situation, (I work for someone who still thinks you can get just RT parts off the shelf in the UK!!) I am not aware of too many RM/Ls being taken out of PVS for restoration. I could be wrong, but AFAIK there have been three pulled out of the pile for bus use, one was numbered RM 2000 and one was numbered RM 13 and the other was an RML that is being kept by an RM operator in the NW for exactly what you suggest, breaking for parts. I say numbered because the buses rescued did not have the original bodies of those RMs. The owner of RM 2000 sadly died not too long after he bought it, and I don't know what happened to it or RM 7 he also owned. RM 13 is owned and is being rebuilt by our Rob Duker. Anyone know of any others taken for preservation?

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

This is a subject that has been widely debated on this site and on "the other side'

Roy, if you trawl through you will almost certainly pick up the threads.
Quite a lot of what you say is much the same as several views held by others including myself.

It's quite a sensitive issue as it seems to erupt in a clash of personalities and differing opinions..

It seems to cause problems for the Owners association as it seems the very second investment in remanufacturing a component reaches fruition, someone else comes along and reveals a stash of said component. Frustrating and costly.

It seems of late a real effort is being made to get a focus on parts and identifying demand and possible supply. Easy if it were just one type but all the variants mechanically make this a very hard task.

An issue that will run and run. My advice: Throw nothing away that may be restorable or aid a restoration.

Brian
In addition to those you have mentioned, also ex Arriva RM (think it was 997) was also pulled out of PVS for restoration, the last green RML was pulled out of the yard opposite PVS for restoration (having been sent there by THAT supposedly "enthusiast" operator), one RML in that yard had its complete top deck removed to rebuild the vehicle blown up by Jeremy Clarkson, I'm sure there was one other but it escapes me at present. After the passing of the late Mike Hurley, RM2000 passed to the son of a friend of mine in Nantwich, Cheshire, as a very long term project.

My bus number (if any): RM531

In an ideal world, The preservation movement could do with a Bus restoration friendly Euromillions winner who could donate a secure site/ warehouse where all the remaining scrap RMs could be properly dismantled, parts catalogued and stored. 50 RMs flat packed can take up a relatively small space.
The that would identify what is really unobtainable.

Well. one can dream!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Norie
someone else comes along and reveals a stash of said component. Frustrating and costly.

The same old story or similar. ex scrap yard component- much cheaper and "exactly what you want, working perfectly when removed." That turns out to have been 30 years ago and it has been sitting in a pool of mud ever since with a bird's nest where the air cleaner should be. It is also the wrong model year or an import from Japan or for a different vehicle which fitted the component but theirs' was just 'slightly different'. ie the sump, the manifolds, the fuel pump, the flywheel and bellhousing, the water pump, it has the drive for an exhauster rather than a compressor and the mountings pick up in a different place. Oh and the camshaft gear is missing and was the 'modified' one that located differently and anyway is not what you have got so you can't run it.

Then someone says they: 'fitted one in 2 hours so the job's **** easy'.

This is exactly what destroys relationships between customer and repairer.

Gents

How much of this stuff has to be as is? I learned recently while unsuccesfully trying to source an air valve that it is probably better to upgrade to a more modern part. Is there not a modern equivelant to the accumulators. Can a different compressor not be fitted. What about the entire braking system upgrade offered by (I think) a Lincolnshire company. I can offer many alternative electrical items and some pretty parts (electrical and non- electrical) are being copied and offered for sale by Routemaster owners that have not been able to source these parts (incidentally i have recently asked if anyone has a rotary test switch for the brake micro circuit. Again does anyone have one of these please).

The questions are then;

What parts can be modernised and when are those that know how to and where to obtain said parts, going to publish how to and where to purchase

What parts, that cannot be modernised, are absolutely unavailable or at least in very short supply?

Is the RMOOA (for which I firmly believe we should all became members and encourage them to use our money to sort these probems) doing anything about these items or indeed being encouraged to by the current members.

The Routemaster was not a perfect design. It was an evolved product of a system that allowed periodic rebuilding and modernisation. That is the reason it survived for so long. Why can it not continue to evolve?

David Colin

Senior Electrical Engineer, Demain UK Ltd and former London Transport Electrician

My bus number (if any): M1001 RML2276 T806

Very well said gentlemen. I'd be interested to know if you have been able to source an alternative reducer valve David - I'm sure mine will fail again at an inconvenient moment.

My bus number (if any): RML2302

I've got a couple of original un loader/reducer valves and overhaul kits in stock. They can be modernised as was done on the converted RMs using a standard Knorr Brems unloader/reducer valve. They're about £148 each though and you have to modify the pipery.

As for the brake test switch, it's a standards RS Components rotary switch.

Some RMs were modified with air brakes I sem to remember, and the rest of the electricals were heavily modified over the years. I've only come across 2 in recent years still with huge rectifiers, and they're with Pro Feels in Belgium.

I can appreciate the urge to cosmetically restore to "original" condition, whatever that was, but once the hidden bits have been modified, it's usually very difficult to un-modify them.

My bus number (if any): RML2532