Does anyone know by chance the correct thread size for the retaining screw thread for the above - I have tried 2ba very close but not correct - the screw is raised head csk brass I believe - many thanks

My bus number (if any): RML2747 @ Gash DD6

Grham, when you say a 2BA is close what do you mean? AFAIK these are 2BAs and you probably need to run a tap through the hole to clear it.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RML 2667, RM 1585, RMC 1458 and 14 RTs

Thanks Brian - I didn't want to ruin the threads if they were not 2ba - I have since cleaned them up and found that a 2ba screw will fit - I guess the top screen handle was only fitted for a duty if required then removed, with the bottom screen being fixed shut years ago, I doubt they have had screws in for years !

My bus number (if any): RML2747 @ Gash DD6

When I worked on them at Aldenham Graham, both the screens opened and had to be serviceable. They were at a minimum cleaned and regreased. I never really knew what led to the bottom screens being fixed shut, I thought it was due to a lack of spare parts for the winding gear but maybe there was another reason.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RML 2667, RM 1585, RMC 1458 and 14 RTs

Don't suppose anyone has got a couple of spare cab window winder handles.....?

Thanks
Mark

My bus number (if any): RML2391

Hi all,
Remember Routemasters are from a different time. Windscreen wiper failed? Open up the windscreen and carry on. That's why you were issued with a hat & overcoat! This was the response I got in 1978 after a call to the shed although they did change the bus on the road when I got back. Funnily enough I had the same with trafficator failure. Carry on and use hand signals! Times have certainly changed.
Regards to all. Danny Robins. (Upton Park Garage 1973-1980).

Further to my post about the lower screens being fixed shut, I now wonder if it was done after that ventilation duct was fitted into the cab with the grille just outside the cab on the cant panel, I wonder if it was just to admit fresher air than that of the cars in front in a traffic jam!!

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RML 2667, RM 1585, RMC 1458 and 14 RTs

I was driving when those little grills started to appear and was always intrigued by them. This was the same time that radios were being fitted and I was told that the grill was a vent for some radio bit. I've never looked in there so don't know if it was true. As far as I'm aware the bottom windscreens started to be sealed as the winding mechanisms began failing. I think they were worried that drivers could unwind the screens and get them stuck. You can see from photos that not all buses were attended to, just ones as required. Regards, Danny.

I'd always assumed this plastic "vent" was a grille for the assault alarm - doesn't seem a practical size or position to ventilate the cab.

What Danny has said is exactly in line with my understanding too. The lower screen was sealed up through mechanism failure as and when - which is why it was always so random. The reality was that there were so few really hot days as to make this feature of any real use so it was nearly always quite difficult to get it open and sometimes even more so to get it shut again.

And as I`m sure Danny can confirm there was always a downside to opening the lower screen on the first warm day of spring or summer. Namely that you would quickly get covered in months of accumulated fag ash and fluff that had collected down there. I would certainly say to any preservationist that unless you`re really sure of the serviceability of the lower screen, leave it alone as when they get stuck they are a real git to sort out.

With the old LT there was indeed the thinking that Danny mentioned about opening the top screen fully to see where you were going in the event of wiper failure. Having that facility was also said to be the reason why washers were never fitted from new or retro-fitted as would reasonably have been expected in later life. The idea of driving with that top screen fully open seems so laughable now doesn`t it! It wasn`t a very sensible idea to try anyway and I was quickly put off it at an early stage when I came within a couple of inches of poking the back window out of a Middle Row RM in Kensington High Street!

After all, with the cab door open to one side and the large window to the other, there was more than enough ventilation that generally didn`t carry the `hit in the eye` risk of incoming insects and dust that opening the top screen had if opened to excess. Opening to a lesser degree was always possible as the mechanism was supposed to be greased on inspection rota.

Something that probably isn`t common knowledge was the idea to fit a screen wash to RMs that saw RM 1216 at Battersea fitted with a trial example around 1981/2. It was going to be put on all RMs there as an experiment towards fleet fitting but got aborted as being a waste of money given that mass withdrawals were about to start. As far as I know just RM 1216 was actually done and it still had it when it came to AEC on withdrawal.

Opening windows were fairly commonplace on working vehicles until the late 50's
Even the GPO Morris minor van had an opening drivers side window until the 1000 model came along.
They were actually intended not for summer use but as a demister!
This meant no heater in most cases so the RM driver was very fortunate.
The weird thing is that the RM had both a heater/demister and the windows.
The lower pane winding mechanism was very vulnerable to water ingress and lack of grease causes the casing to rust up and seize the chain.
drivers sometimes tried to free them, they would move a few mm and then jam.
The result was water ingress and a draft so the brackets were riveted on to close the frame tight.
BEA/RMA had a one piece screen and a screen washer as standard. One of the Marshall refurb RMs arrived with the same set up and was outshopped in the same guise.

The vent that was clumsily chopped into the cant rail just behind the cab on the side of the bus is for the radio. Originally a steel grille that rusted and I understand replaced with plastic ones.

Hello Mr Alternator. Firstly, is there any reason why you cannot use your real name on here? I and I suspect others like to know with whom we are talking. We are all friends here even though I would wear armour at the next bus rally that you go to if I were you, but then maybe that is why you hide your idenity!

Second point, replying to your post is the RTs had both cab heaters and demisters fitted from new in 1953 and retrofitted to all RTs built before that date. As the RM was in development at that time its no surprise that it had the same arrangement for heating and demisting. After all when RMs replaced RT family buses, the drivers were only getting what they had been used to for many years previously when they were driving RTs, although a heater was certainly an improvement for the trolleybus drivers, although not sure the engine noise was!!
Looking at this thread, I think there are a couple of posts missing as I'm sure it was confirmed by someone in the garages at the time that the grille behind the cab was to vent the radio equipment.

The RM cab window opening equipment was almost identical to the RT, not sure I agree that it was prone to water ingress, RTs leaked a lot more than RMs ever did, what is was prone to though was seizing up if not maintained i.e. cleaned and greased. It was OK extending the overhaul cycle to 6 years provided that the jobs that only seemed to get done on overhaul were done at the time of the repaint, its not that hard to open the windows, wipe off the chain and apply a bit of fresh grease is it, that is all that winding equipment ever needed, I have RT winding gear here that is functioning perfectly well after 40 years since an overhaul.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RML 2667, RM 1585, RMC 1458 and 14 RTs

There's a good reason for not revealing my identity but I don't use this to inflict malice or gossip especially personally. I'll offer an opinion or a view on the other site but that's as far as it goes. Those who do know me know exactly why. It's not by choice I'm afraid. Hence why I generally keep to one site.
But I am happy to offer advice if it helps. That's all.

However, I had not really referred to or considered the RT. All I know about the RT is that the top deck heater for passengers was great compared to the RM.

I think the problem with the RM winder relates to mainly to the lower pane.

I've removed several of these and they are not easy to access without stripping a lot down.
All, do indeed, show a lack of maintenance. Ancient grease and plenty of rust each time. Some have been too far gone to renovate. The degree of corrosion to the casing does indicate water and corrosives. They often look like something ferrous found on a beach.
Completely cleaned, and greased, these things work really well. I've not done an RT one yet so can't comment on that.

I would recommend that if you are doing up a cab and sorting the cab heater and all the bits forward of the steering wheel that the front panels be removed as it makes the whole job so much easier and enables all the draft seals (which are probably little more than grit and glue! to be renewed.

Hi Brian

I always ignore anonymous posts, they are like anonymous complaints, fit only for the bin.

The grill on the cant rail in the first bay behind the cab is the assault alarm box that makes the awful noise when it's set off. Because of the weight of the box a 10g steel panel is also put in to take the box weight. I removed the one on my bus along with the steel plate and the box hole cut into it looked as though it was cut out with an angle grinder.

Claire

My bus number (if any): RML2330 etc.

As a footnote.
Claire is right in one respect. That she does not wish to read anonymous entries.
Like one does not have to watch everything on BBC1.
It's a free society...just.
However, I have used the same nom de plun for some years and deliberately chose one that is rather obvious.
This is unlike some who use fake real names. And there are quite a few.
One or two I know, and are also for similar reasons.

This is quite different to those who use fake names and solely pedal insults to people.

I'm happy to share my experience and knowledge here but if it's such a problem then that's OK, I'll stay in one forum where I can be found.

My bus number (if any): 0

Ropey. Your input is welcome as is anyone else's as far as I am concerned (as long as they use a spellchecker!!) From my perspective this Forum is used by people who want to discuss buses, RMs in particular and its good to know where people worked and what their background and experioence is, as it helps to know if a contributor talks or appears to talk from a point of knowledge born out of experience or is just an informed (or in some cases ill informed) amateur. Of course I understand that you cannot blow your cover on here and not elsewhere!!

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RML 2667, RM 1585, RMC 1458 and 14 RTs

Hello all.

What Neil and Ropey say is correct on this.
(Nice to see Ropey on this site, I taught him a lot of what he knows many years back and yes, I'll vouch for him and fully understand why he has to use a generic name.)
I certainly enjoy the wisdom and input from Ropey and have never seen a single insult or abuse of his anonimity so I have no problem with that. Far worse has come from others for no reason, hence why I don't contribute so often and not at all on 'the other channel'!

We found that this lower winder rusted up and with it the fastenings seized making it a very difficult and time consuming job to replace. Stores never had replacements available during the mid seventies onwards. other more pressing things soon put this down the list of maintenance priorities.

I always assumed Aldenham would routinely replace the units but maybe Brian knows more on this. Certainly in the 1970's, most came back unservicable but with mainly Indian drivers at HL very few were ever warm enough! so it was not an issue in the english summer!

We did fix any that were in the bodyshop having front end repairs as it was easy to get at with the front panel off and this is where the fault cause lies.

There is supposed to be some rubber sorbot seals around the vents for the heater and air. Also another strip for draft proofing. This simply rots to dust.
That and drainng condensation and water ingress from all over seems to find it's way to the mechanism and used it as sort a drip ledge!

Regular greasing and operation of the unit would have prevented this but I cannot ever remember anyone doing that. It was bad enough getting windows done usually because the special grease gun was always going awol!

Happy Easter

My bus number (if any): none at present

Yes you are right Jack about both Aldenham replacing these units at overhaul and the foam strip on the vent panels, although in my day (doesn't that make me sound old!!), I cannot remember replacing a single one. The winding gear was extended, cleaned and greased. As I said earlier some things could stand not being attended to for 6 or 7 years on the RM but cab rubbers and windscreen mechanisms were not amongst them, although these were supposed to be at least checkerd at agarages on the 8 and 16 rota. I suspect cost cutting and lack of parts led to the final decision to just rivet the bottom halves shut.

There was a rubber/foam strip that was supposed to be replaced in all the cab vents, there was also a larger half round draught excluder that was supposed to be stuck between the cab panel and the cab floor, but I can remember only one bus that had had a cab panel replacement at the garages (they never bothered to pain them brown at garages) that had this in place when it came in for overhaul, so either garage coachmakers had too much on with recerts, repaint preparation, accidents etc or they just could not be bothered to do the job properly, I hope it was the former but suspect in some cases considering the state of the buses we used to get from garages with large RM allocations like Riverside and Cricklewood, in some cases it was the latter!

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RML 2667, RM 1585, RMC 1458 and 14 RTs