We are taking this vehicle to Russia next summer to auction for a charity. Having lots of trouble finding the regulations - at present we have a Class 5 taxation - does anyone please know what we would need to go into Russia. There will be less than 8 people travelling and also no fare paying passengers.
Any information at all would be welcomed.
Thank you

My bus number (if any): KGJ 187A

Hi Margaret

I can't think of any obvious problems apart from low bridges and needing international insurance. I'm sure however that lots of enthusiasts will be horrified to hear of a Routemaster being exported - would it not be much simpler, if less exciting, to auction it HERE and send the money to Russia so that she stays in this country and you maximise your contribution to the charity!? You could always buy a more ordinary bus with part of the money raised and take that one to Russia!

My bus number (if any): RML2302

You will need to plan your route very carefully, Through Germany could be difficult with many roads and a number of motorways including the A1 gauged at only 4 metres and that includes wires and cables. You could also find yourself having to have an escort with flashing orange lights like a wide load if you choose to use these roads due to the height of 4.3 metres. I would check out the potential usage in Russia as well as far as height goes. Like Brian, I would have thought a raffle in the UK would have far more monetary appeal than in Russia where these buses are unknown.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585 and 15 RTs

It's never very wise taking an RM far from it's service base. They are not like a car or a contemporary truck or bus.
The RM was designed as a service bus operating from a fully facilitated depot.

They are old and need a lot of tlc to keep their peculiarities from claiming them as dead.

Accumulators need topping up, and we all know about the gearbox control 551 units and what a devil they can be.

An RM in good fettle would probably make the journey OK but then what?
One typical fault occurring as far away as Russia could be a very costly if not a terminal problem.

Unless its a museum or it's being supplied with all the ancillaries it may need.

Hi Margret
I am looking for a Routemaster to restore.
I can buy it off of you now if the price is right.
think of all the aggravation it will save you and you will get the money now instead of waiting untill you get there.
If you email me I will give you my phone number.
Regards
Dave

Hi Margret
Re previous massage.
My email address is david.5033@yahoo.co.uk
Dave

I'm sorry Dave, but that is a rather Vultureous and tasteless approach.

This is intended for a charity auction and therefore the intention is to raise the Maximum amount of money for a charity, not an opportunity to get something cheap.

It may be better for Margarets team to auction it here to the highest bidder but it is for a purpose and that is for them to decide.

Maybe you would like to bid or offer the maximum?

I've got to say I agree with Jack, Dave. There are an awful lot of other people after Routemasters - I believe Ensignbus have a waiting list running into hundreds - and the charity has to get the best possible result.

My bus number (if any): RML2302

RM1621. Unusual as it has non opening front windows with the early vents. Marshall refurb. History below with credit to Ians bus stop.
RM1621 621 DYE new: 7/5RM5/7, Leyland O.600
6/63 new to Aldenham
6/63 MH into service on 43
1964 MH
8/65 H transfer
10/65 U transfer
7/66 RD transfer for 165
7/67 RD to Aldenham repaint
7/67 NB from repaint
6/68 PM transfer
from last overhaul with B1725
KGJ187A 1993 reregistered
10/94 NX privatised to London Central
1995 NX route-branded for 36
1995 refurbished, new lights, trim
1999 NX still London Central
2000-2 NX
2/03 SW returned to London Buses (Stockwell)
2/03 Q reassigned to London Central for 12 (Camberwell)
7/03 SW return to 11
11/03 Q back to 12
11/04 Q withdrawn..
11/04 ..into store (Mandela Way)
11/04 NX transfer for 36
1/05 NX withdrawn into store
2/05 sold to Ensign Bus, (Purfleet)
7/05 bought by Mr Larry Sullivan, Guildford

A journey of thousands of miles facing uncertain and interesting border crossings let alone the obstacles already mentioned, without a sustantial back up team carrying appropriate spares for what is almost a 50 year old vehicle would seem brave to say the least. The mixture of old technology with new on these Marshall refurbs could prove problamatic for anyone attempting repairs which may prove neccesary on route.

Undoubtedly modifications will have to be made for people to live safely and securely in the bus en route, not least rear doors to prevent unauthorised access by anyone with less than good intentions and who may well be armed. This will reduce its value and narrow its appeal to potential buyers.

While summer holiday style trips, with the best of ultimate intentions have a certain romance and fun value, the practicalities are often overlooked, not least the safety and security of persons, possesions and vehicle particularly at night when sleeping. There are many horror stories within the road haulage industry which some on here will know only to well. There are some ruthless people out there.

I hate to see another of these vehicles exported to what can only at best be described as an uncertain future. It would be far better to travel in a more modern vehicle, preferably left hand drive, preferably of international pedigree such as a Mercedes coach, which could at least be used more easily in its intended destination and worked on with local knowledge, and not be potentially too high to use in the location anyway. The routemaster is unknown to many British bus mechanics, let alone Russian ones. I don't know how well mechanics in the chosen destination know Allison gearboxes or Cummins Euro engines, let alone accumulators requiring regular fills with air or Nitrogen, or topping up the brakes with Tellus 22 oil.

margaret I wish you every success with your noble fundraising efforts which I applaud, and wish you every success for your journey. But I would urge you to consider what has already been said, auction the vehicle in this country, possibly even on Ebay, where a ready market exists which is crying out for the vehicles, rather than in Russia where there is not, and select a more suitable vehicle for your journey.
Consider this- if a group of travellers from Russia turned up in the UK in a 50 year old Russian bus to sell for charity would there be much interest in it?

My bus number (if any): RM531

Putting Gricer's hat on, why has RM 1621 got non opening windows? Its got body B1725 according to the records, and that didn't have non-opening windows when built. Were the original quarter drops and front dome taken for an RML or something in privatised days?

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585 and 15 RTs

We can but wonder Brian. I think it more likely that they were fitted, for some unusual reason, at Marshalls on refurb.
Photos before (with origional reg no) show it with openers, photos after refurb show non openers.
Such as http://swanswell.fotopic.net/p37592234.html with credits to the photographer. (taken from Flickr)

Edited correction- believe the bus is NOT a Marshall refurb but one of Centrals own refurbs, note the sidelights and interior lights. Was fooled by the hopper windows!

My bus number (if any): RM531

I believe 1621 had the roof of an older RM gratfed on to it following accident damage whilst in service.

Also whilst its correct that we have a waiting list of people many of those are now no longer interested as the fanfare of withdrawal has long since passed.

We do have a couple of RM's and RML's in stock and whilst I never use forums such as this for advertising one of them is RML892 which being one of the original RML batch I am loathed see sold out of preservation and go overseas somewhere.

Cheers
Steve

Hi Steve (N !)

Sorry to over-estimate your waiting list - it WAS quite a long time ago that I heard the "hundreds" figure mentioned!

PS Pleased you've just made a sale of an Olympian to an aquaintance of mine...!

My bus number (if any): RML2302

Well Jack If you dont ask you dont get.
Yes I would be prpaired to bid for this bus if it didnt go over the value of it,but I dont think that I would be prepared to bid the maximum bid what ever that would be.as much as I admire charity work,would you?
As you know the value of a Routemaster is alot higher than any other bus thats about 30 or 40 years oldso this lady could sell it in England at a high price and with the money purchase a different type of bus for alot less than she will get for the RM and take that to Russia.
Can you see people in Russia clambering and fighting to buy an RM at such prices as we would pay here I dont think so guys.I dont think most of them would kow the difference between an RM or a Regent 5 or what ever.
Dave

The point is it is a real London Bus and that is why it is likely to bring in a huge, over it's value, donation.

You are right that it could be any recognisible London Bus. But it would need to be a half cab so an RT or RM or possibly pull the wool over the eyes with any other red painted half cab, but that would also be deception.

No. I would not bid for it, not as an ordinary non-moneyed individual. But, like most charitable auctions, it is not the intention to get a bargain or even a going rate deal, it is to raise the maximum for a need. Hence why people donate £20,000 for a dinner with Gordon Ramsay at home that would actually cost £75.

If you are prepared to put up a donation of substance and match what wealthy Russians at the moment have. ie ££££££ to throw around and craving for respectability then all well and good.

But I suspect you think you might get in and put in a silly offer which will do nothing for the charitable effort.
Hence why I think your asking was rather inappropriate and far from helpful.
So much so, that I rarely get angry enough to respond to such but with respect I cannot let this pass without comment.

First of all, if I want to inform someone that I am interested in purchasing their bus then thats my business.

Secondly, I dont know you from Adam so how dare you state that I am trying to get her bus at a knock down price with insinuations that I am trying to con a charity. I really think that you are getting carried away here, I certainly would not make comments like that about anyone I didn't know - especially in public.

As far as my comments being "far from helpful" as you put it. In a previous messageto her you state that RMs were not designed to go far from their base and accumulators need topping up etc (which is true). It sounds to me like you are trying to put her off going, I hardly call this helpful.

I suppose you would use the excuse that you are just pointing out hurdles and trying to be helpful, but as far as my message was concerned you would say that I was trying to get a cheap deal, basically we can all twist things if we want.

I can't see how you can compare bidding £20,000 for a meal with Gordon Ramsey with bidding for a bus. I'm no expert on Russian class and social system (although you seem to know a bit about it) but I personally dont think that people with lots of ££££££££££££ to throw around are interested in bidding for an old London bus but thats just my opinion and I'm sure that she has done her rsearch on this and good luck to her.

However, we can go bickering like this for ever Jack so why dont we just agree to disagree and leave it at that, after all this forum was designed for people to help each other not all this rubbish. I for one haven't got time for all this so I won't be making any further comments about this subject, hope you feel the same. Dave

Dave I do accept that and will leave it at that we beg to differ.

I spent 6 months in Kiev last year setting up a fleet logistics operation and this is the second stint so, I do know Russia and yes, there are people with huge amounts of new money and a London Bus would be a status symbol.
So Margaret's idea is sound in that respect, but you are right, I don't think it is a good idea certainly from the bus's point of view as I suspect it will end up a lump of scrap in a very short time.

So my opinions were pragmatic, no more than that.

Hence the dinner with Ramsay analogy. I don't know anyone who would spend that much but clearly there are no shortage of bidders. But almost anyone who eats in a restaurant knows roughly what a meal costs.

The same is with a bus, you know what it may be worth and so do others in the business or in the preservation game.
I did not see you offer any help or advice, positive or negative to the owner.
Which is what was requested.
Just an offer. The tone of which said everything.

I will agree to beg to differ and it is nothing personal as I rarely react to this stuff.
I did react to your entry as it is not in the spirit of this website.
So I will agree and leave it at that.

Just an observation about Routemasters in Europe. For the last two years I have been driving a Routemaster belonging to the company I work for, EF Education First, around Europe. Our tour starts in Finland each year and I visited eleven countries last time stretching from Finland in the north to southern Spain in the south and east as far as Slovakia with all the countries in between. This included the Swiss and Austrian Alps during winter and two months round the whole of Spain in the Spring. Our vehicle has proved basically trouble free apart from a couple of brake wheel cylinders which leaked and had to be replaced, I came back to England on the train to get the new ones. The engine has never failed me at all, it's a Scania, and I am totally in love with this vehicle and cannot believe where it has been and what it has done! At present I am in Zurich with it, these things are just incredible as far as I am concerned, they like to run every day.

My bus number (if any): 1398

Hi Steve,
Good to hear about your routemaster's reliability , just what we'd all expect !! Is there any chance of posting some pictures on here showing us your travels on her ?
Mark

My bus number (if any): RML2391

Will certainly try when I get a bit of time, I have quite a few pictures of our promotions, only thing is, you fellows will be outraged because the bus is in the company colour, blue!! It also has a converted upper deck which is waterproof with no top on where we let people come up and sometimes hold an Apero in fine weather. None of this detracts from the vehicle as far as I am concerned, I still love it, but frequently wish it was still red.

My bus number (if any): 1398

Any chance you could post about how easy it is to drive one of these buses around the continent?

How do you determine whether there are any low bridges or signage on the route that you intend to take? Are there local laws and regulations that affect you?

My bus number (if any): RML2644

I can help with France Brian. All bridges below 4.5 metres are marked by a sign and shown on Michelin maps, so it quite easy to plan your route, the problems come if you go wrong or are diverted, I was in Toulouse and was divert towards bridges of 4.2 metres, which are quite common in this city and on its ring road.

In Germany its much harder to find a safe route as the norm is 4m even on some Autobahns there are still some 4 metre bridges and the signage of these is not too good at all. Its not possible to register a vehicle over that height in Germany which is why all the German RM are open top or have canvas roofs. I believe Italy and Switzerland pose similar problems for 14ft 6" buses.

My bus number (if any): RMC 1458, RM 1585, RTL 960 and 15 RTs

Just another piece of info, the Routemaster I drive on our European Tour, 3rd year now, is open top as I mentioned and therefore I can get under the 4m bridges found on German Autobahns.
Mainly what I do is keep a really good eye open for bridges and low trees etc. and probably like many of the people on this forum I grew up driving the double-deck vehicles, took my test on one and am used to watching out for such things.
Our bus is still going around on this permanent roadshow, at present I am in Switzerland and later it's Austria, Slovakia, Czech Republic and then Poland. This vehicle still amazes me with what it has done, not being designed for such things of course, in fact I love it even more than I did last year :)
On a further note, I believe this bus was built in 1961, can anybody here who is good at this sort or thing find out if this is correct?
My best wishes to all of you, Steve.

My bus number (if any): 1398

RM 1398 with body number B1398 entered service from Rye Lane garage in January 1963. Following a number of overhauls during which it received three other bodies, it was last fitted with the body originally fitted to RM 1787 (B1787). That bus entered service one year later from Cricklewood Garage.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs