More from the March 1967 Rule Book for Drivers and Conductors.

Bell Signals 22. Drivers and conductors
must observe the following codes of
bell signals:

One ring … … … Stop.
Two rings … … … Start.
Two double-rings … … Pull into left side.
Rapid succession of rings … Emergency stop.

Except when vehicles are reversing, (see rule 27)
conductors must driers as regards starting and
stopping entirely by the bell.

From my memories of travelling to school on the 108b and 3 routes in the 1960s the following signals were often given.

There is no mention of the triple ring "full right up" in the rule book.

It is also clear that conductors giving a start signal by stamping twice on the floor of the upper deck or tapping the upper deck front bulkhead with a coin was not permitted.

My bus number (if any): RM238, RM471 and RM2213

There was absolutely one way and way only to ring a bus off. Conductor on the platform using right hand to ring the bell above the used ticket box thus able to look for intending passengers and also able to 'disuade', as it was delicately put, passengers trying to board after the bell had been rung. Not from upstairs, the bell under the stairs or the cord inside lower deck.

Have a look on the LT Museum photo site and you'll see this stance again and again. Obviously you didn't always have the time (or couldn't be bothered) to get back to the platform and rang off from elsewhere but woe betide you if there was an accident. Black & white question on the accident report: Where was Conductor? Hopefully where he should be!

Regards to all,

Danny.

Absolutely and a lot of the older drivers would not move unless they got a bell and could look in thier n/s mirror and see you particulary if they had a different mate on overtime the old hands were very by the book and always wore hats ,what memories

But the rules and the reality were totally different. Crews got to trust each other, they normally worked in pairs and had arranged "starting systems". I don't think not being bothered came into it so much in the old days if it was often full upstairs and with 20 odd fares to collect before the next stop getting to the platform for each stop was totally out of the question. Another point, if giving the upstairs buzzer was not allowed why have the mirrors showing the platform? In reality, "safe" systems were adopted including drivers looking behind them if given a signal from upstairs by way of buzzer, coin or budget lock key on blind door! I was taught 4 bells was an emergency stop when I did my PSV, I wonder what Mr Fuller was taught?

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 and 15 RTs

Sure Brian, but like it or not, the rules were the rules and that was reflected in how you were taught. How many drivers applied the handbrake at every stop? Few if any. Every RT trained driver was taught to stop at a stop, apply the handbrake and operate the pedal for 2nd gear. Who did that? No one. Everyone operated into 2nd just as the wheels came to stop to avoid the 'jerk' into gear.

Why have a handle in the cab to change the front destination blind when the conductor was responsible for displaying the correct blinds? There's no end to it but you were taught the right way and that was what was expected however onerous it may have been in service. To rely on a driver to make sure the platform was clear on a busy bus as you buzzed off from upstairs was a big ask. Sure, we all did it and fine, your mate would go BUT if something went wrong you'd both be in the sh*t! I'm sure the company would take the view that the mirror was for the conductor to look upstairs to keep an eye on things, not to look downstairs so he didn't need to come down and ring the bus off as he had been taught.

I know the things we talk about cover a wide period and things change but I went to Chiswick in 1975 for conductor training and then driving in 1978 and was taught 4 rings, ie 2 double rings, was the signal to pull over in your own time. ie safely; you needed to stop for something but it was not an emergency. I used this once when some one dropped a parcel from the platform. The emergency stop was always a rapid succcesion of bells.

Great fun, as always, thinking of the old days. It seems a different world from now, which I suppose it is.

Regards to all,

Danny Robins
Upton Park 1973-1980

Looking back to those days when I was taught the same way, it is typical that the correct way to ring off was to use the bell on the platform and yet the only buzzer was upstairs, which really condoned the unofficial ways of working as the driver would only know where you were when upstairs. When they came to produce the RMC, the only bell was the one on the platform because the conductor had to shut the doors, so the driver needed to know you were away from the platform. For those who don't know, the correct LT way to work an RMC/RCL was for the driver to open the doors (as only he knew when the bus was finally stopped at a stop) and the conductor to close the doors before giving the start signal. This is the reason why the open doors switch on the platform is not on the main door control panel on the platform with the close button, the master switch and the reset button.

My bus number (if any): RMC1469

Hiya

The Driver is responsible for changing the front destination indicator, the conductor for the rear destination indicator, the inside staff (running shift) are responsible for dressing the remaining indicators and finally the conductor is responsible for ensuring the bus is correctly dressed before leaving the garage by a visual check.

The correct proceeedure for coming to a stand on RT types of bus is to operate for 2nd speed as you come to a stop and once stopped apply the handbrake using the footbrake to do this. When starting away after receiving the starting signal use the footbrake to release the handbrake and apply the gas having ensured that it is safe to do so.

The upper saloon buzzer is for passengers to inform the driver that they wish to alight at the next stop. Conductors must only ever give the starting signal to the driver from the platform after the usual visual checks to the front and rear of the bus for intending passengers.

On London Transport I only ever worked for the Executive or the Board, never a Company.

Claire :-)

My bus number (if any): 2330 etc.

Hi all,

Sorry to go back to an old topic, especially one that may be of limited interest to most people but I feel that if info is being put 'out there' we should try and make sure it's as accurate as possible. I was a little perplexed at reading a different view to mine. Not so much at the fact of being wrong but that awful thought that the grey matter might be failing me!

I had to consult my 'mate', George, but he has been away for a trip, hence the delay. I'll put myself on the table straight away by saying I started on LT in 1973 and was at Upton Park Garage. Young, keen conductor itching, as usually the case, to go driving. I went to Chiswick in 1978, passed out N103243 trained on RT, RML & DM. George, in the meantime, did not want to work with another conductor. He did not want to be an OMO driver and so applied at the next intake to be a Driving Instructor at Chiswick. He did that for a few years before becoming a DMI, based in East London. (Non-LT people must be thinking-WTF!) I had to speak to him to confirm how LT trained it's drivers to stop.

Basically, in an RT you trundled along in 4th.gear, with 3rd.gear pre-selected. At a stop you were taught to steer in, watch what you were doing and put the platform next to the flag. When you stopped, apply the handbrake, select 2nd gear, operate, pre-select third and wait for the bell. Ding-ding, and off you went again. The trouble was when you operated the bus would shudder as it went into gear. To avoid this a lot of drivers selected 2nd as they came onto the stop and operated just as the wheels stopped. Of course, seeing this it would be easy to imagine this was how the company wanted it done. However, with thousands of buses stopping at thousands of stops imagine the possibility of mistiming the gear change and operating a trifle too early. Droppping it into 2nd at the wrong speed could lead to a big jolt, dangerous to the passengers and conductor not to mention the possibility of damage to the transmission. Added to all this you also have the prospect of a driver messing about with the gear lever and foot pedals just when he should be concentrating on the stop, I just can't imagine the company would ever sanction this.

Sorry to be contrary, I'm honestly not trying to rattle any cages but I'm imagining anyone even remotely interest in this stuff must be enthusiastic about LT to some degree and would like to have a think about this.

Regards, as always, to all and all the best for the New Year.

Danny Robins.

PS: I'll post some thoughts about the destination blinds if you like!!!!

Claire's note that the running shift were responsible for dressing the buses only applied to the Central Area. On Country Buses & Coaches the Conductor or OPO Driver was responsible for ensuring that vehicles displayed the correct blinds all round. The reason for this was that they tended to swap from route to route during the traffic day so for instance SA 51 might start off as a 358 but it would also do some 343's and 338/A's and maybe a bit on the 330 as well.

Buses did not carry running cards as in the Central Area but a VRR, (vehicle running record) board which was in the custody of the Conductor or OPO Driver. On it was listed the route number and time and place of departure and arrival which was displayed in code form plus any variations from normal. There was also a column for the revenue route as the revenue was not always allocated to the route number displayed on the vehicle or listed in the timetable.

Intermediate times were taken from the staff version of the timetable which also contained a list of codes that identified the various termini; ie: BH was Borehamwood, Cowley Hill

My bus number (if any): RM 912 & RML 2455