I'm about to apply the vinyl lettering and want to make sure I get it right. I've posted some photos of the positioning of most of the RM's lettering on the ROOF website.

I'd be grateful for comments on this.

My bus number (if any): RM238, RM471 and RM2213

Just to add to Chris's post - the vinyls were obtained from Simon Austin at Squirrel Preservation. Simon also provided me with a copy of an LT diagram that showed the exact location of each transfer.

There were changes in style to a number of vinyls over the years and Simon was very helpful in identifying the ones for the right period, in my case the mid 60's.

The LT fleetname and fleet numbers were applied by London Bus and Truck when 1699 underwent a repaint there about 12 months ago. The remaining ones were applied by me. If I was to be pedantic I think the fleet numbers on the bonnet and cabside are spaced a little too close together. I though I'd better point this out before anyone else does!

My bus number (if any): RM1699 Eastbourne Regent V 69(KHC369)

The stock numbers are not too close together Steve, but there should be space between the "RM" and the number of approximately the width of a 6 transfer.

My bus number (if any): RMC 1458, RM 1585, RTL 960 and 15 RTs

Thanks Brian for the clarification.

I might also have mentioned not to forget the body number transfers (in white and same size as those for the fleetnumber on the rear platform) that should be displayed on the inside edge adjacent to the front canopy blind-box. This practice discontinued upon cessation of overhauls in the mod 80's and it's not often present on RM's in preservation. But it is a good way of identifying the body number!

My bus number (if any): RM1699 Eastbourne Regent V 69(KHC369)

Obviously Vinyl is the latterday (and easier to affix) version of the original transfers and in the main they are pretty good for most applications.

But one pal (a professional typographer) gets rather hot under the collar on this issue so it is nice to see an effort in the right direction to show the big difference that attention to small details can make. So here are a few of his views

A good book on typography can help (including the one on Johnstons LT typeface designs.

Looking carefully at old pictures, there seems to be not one, but two 'R' characters used on RMs. One, seems to be used up to and including the 880-903 RMLs.
This letter 'R' has no space between the vertical and sloping ascenders.
I think this was the 'R' used on RT and RF buses and that some time in the mid 60's a subtle change took place. It is the later one that conforms to the Johnston LT typeface (which was modified again in the 1980s)
Later buses seem to have a space like the R on 1699.

As Brian says the spacing between typecode and stock number is about the size of a '6'.
With Gold transfers the spacing was more open than the later white font. This was because the font was larger but also to allow for the black outline which should also be on the 'Routemaster' legend.
Spacing was a typographers golden rule. '1699' is a good example of when their rules apply to create a visual continuity.
Most characters can be spaced evenly, but a few can just overlap into the space of another "L & T' for example 6&9 another.
Computer typesetting has struggled with correct spacing which was always done by eye. Some at LT were better than others.
But to date, it is still the eye of a skilled human that can get the spacing perfect.

From what I have here Jack, you are spot on with the change in the R, but did it coincide with the change to the thinner black outline on the gold transfers?

I have an old RT plate with the old style R with a thick black outline and later 1970s R in the style shown on Steve's bus with the thinner outline, but I also have a transfer with the original R style with the thin outline but that is a repro, so hard to tell.

Anyone know if Squirrel's differentiate between these types? I know from Simon they do the two different outlines.

My bus number (if any): RMC 1458, RM 1585, RTL 960 and 15 RTs

Further to the post above and Jack's post about the R, if you look at eBay there is an RT plate on there, number 250579478957, where the difference between the old R and the one on this site can clearly be seen.

My bus number (if any): RMC 1458, RM 1585, RTL 960 and 15 RTs

These are two different style letter R's.
Both are Varnish Fix

Rob

My bus number (if any): RM13

Does the one on the right have a heavier black outline Rob? Its hard to see from the back.

My bus number (if any): RMC 1458, RM 1585, RTL 960 and 15 RTs

Brian,
You are quite right,the one on the right has the heavier black outline, and is the older of the transfers

Rob

My bus number (if any): RM13

With the assistance of Squirrel Preservation and Steven Wood I've managed to obtain a copy of "Arrangement of Adverts Transfers & L.T. Notices" produced by Department of the Chief Engineer (Road Services) L.T. Chiswick Works, most recent update 4th February 1985.

It is a large document and I've scanned it in chunks. I'll post better detailed copies (which can be enlarged to read more easily) on the ROOF website in the next couple of days.











Does anyone know what the BP numbers are and which numbers apply to which transfers.

Transfers in Varnish Fix and Vinyl can be obtained from Squirrel Preservation 82 Harcourt Avenue, Penhill Park, Sidcup, Kent, DA15 9LN.

My bus number (if any): RM238, RM471 and RM2213

I've done this now and you can find them here

My bus number (if any): RM238, RM471 and RM2213

BP numbers were LT part numbers. On the LT transfers I have the BP numbers are printed on the back with the date of manufacture, e.g. BP 14340 3/75 is the platform passenger capacity transfer for an RMC.

Alone BP numbers are now of little use without a conversion chart giving the transfer's description, so that a source and modern spec can be identified.

I will give one a bash as some of the transfers are common to RTs and I can just about remember what went where, so I can make a start on it, but I might need some help with finding out the transfers used on refurbs as I have no idea of those.

EDIT
Chris if you have a list of BP numbers that would be of use as to what some of the transfers are on the drawings is somewhat difficult without the associated drawings, e.g. cab interior.

My bus number (if any): RMC 1458, RM 1585, RTL 960 and 15 RTs

That's a superb effort finding this and will be a real boon to anyone doing a restoration. I note that several references to other sheets with exact locating dimensions are on there. The LTM must have those cross referenced.

This really is the sort of stuff that makes a difference for restorers.

After seeing the appreciative comments resulting from Chris uploading the detailed drawings regarding transfer positions on RM`s, I may be able to add something similar.

I have two A3 size detailed drawings showing the part number of every panel and bodywork item on an RM. One is of the rear and offside, the other is front and nearside.

I guess that the worth of this is limited now given that walking into an LT stores with a shopping list of panels isn`t exactly an everyday event for preservationists but as a historical document of reference it probably deserves a place on this site for others to use.

So I`m happy to provide copies to be uploaded if this is deemed helpful. Chris, do you want me to post them to you?