Hi Guys,

It is probably a question for Ropey and Mr Watkinson.

We are currently refurbishing the cab interior on RM1357 and are in a quandry whether to do the cab interior all black or brown and black.

Can you guys confirm that the black is a semi-matt finish and the brown is a gloss finish. Through various layers of paint it appears that the brown has previously been painted in gloss and a matt finish.

Also can you tell me from what year LT dropped the brown and painted the whole cab interior black.

Thank you.

My bus number (if any): RML2583 and RM1357

Martin,

RM cabs are definately semi-gloss black and chocolate brown.

It was the RML refurb program that started the all black craze!

Andy

My bus number (if any): too many to mention

Hi Andy,

Speedy reply or what! Thanks.

So chocolate brown and black semi gloss it is then.

I have just looked at you website, now I know where you are we have had enquiries for North Wales which I guess you would cover, if I have any more in your part of the world I will pass them on.

Regards.

Martin

My bus number (if any): RML2583 and RM1357

Martin
As Andy says matt black above the cab waist and brown gloss below the waist except for the dash are the correct colours. Much of delineation is straight forward. However, I think, but will check, that the rear of the cab behind the drivers's seat except for the control box and rear of driver's seat is all matt black.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

Hi Brian,

I would agree, I have cleaned off a couple of parts to get to the right colour as the Navy painted blue over the top of it.

It does appear the the brown was gloss and the brown items would be -

Electric control box.
Between the door and the driver seat.
The drivers seat frame.
The floor.
Below the window/waitline of the engine side of the cab.
A small wiring cover at seat height to the left of the rear of the drivers seat.

I can't find any evidence of any brown paint below the waist behind the drivers seat.

I will post a couple of pictures as I go along.

My bus number (if any): RM2583 and RM1357

3 Sides brown all below window lines.
Rear of cab behind drivers seat Black but control box brown. All ancillaries below window line Brown sterring column brown but gear control Black/
Dash/instruments Black, Heater black, heater contrls balck with white tips. Pedals, silver on metal areas only.

Black should be a low sheen flat black. The brown is gloss.

How about the seat covers - were they ever tartan or were they black leather?

My bus number (if any): RM2583 and RM1357

Hi Martin, yes any enquiries from North Wales most welcome!

Cab seat should be perferated black leatherette.

Andy

My bus number (if any): too many to mention

Seat cover originally was dark brown rexine/leathercloth (rexine is a brand name of ICI), then perforated black leathercloth, then moquette. In terms of comfort when driving long periods the driver's comfort factor rises in line with the changes. Driving with shorts as we often do on the original covering or vinyl is not a good experience!!

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

I've got a perfect match for the brown in two pack paint. Also note the leather and fabric on the seat.



Came across a washer jet motor and then realised there was actually a washer jet above the windscreen, it appears to have not been connected up for years, the pipes and the wiring to the motor have been cut off and there is no evidence of a switch. However, I think it was an LT modification as the motor is mounted to its own studded plate which is then pop rivited to the side wall. Also it has its own cover which is exceptionally well made and on the inside has the brown which is completely untouched and when I rubbed the outside down underneath the brown was a typical LT salmon coloured primer hence the reason I believe this modification was done while the bus was with LT. Or does anyone know any different?

My bus number (if any): RM2583 and RM1357

If the upper screen was also plated shut, didn't RMs have to have a screen washer? Was this bus ever licensed as a learner?

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

Do you have a code for the brown by any chance? I've had problems trying to get a reasonable match.

My bus number (if any): RM1699 Eastbourne Regent V 69(KHC369)

Hammerites smooth brown is almost exactly the right shade but very difficult to use and retouch in with. It's also the one colour they don't do as a spray!


Only RMA types had a screen washer as they had a one piece windscreen.

However there was a lot of problems with recertifications of RM types when delicencensed as buses.

MoT inspectors insisted that any post 1963 vehicle had to have a screen washer. This applied when a RM type was being MoT'd for training duties or non PSV use.

LT had all sorts of exemptions from regular ministry rules and PSV rules seemed to differ to that of other road vehicles

This was one of the few MoT rules that were brought in around 1969 that were retrospective on all vehicles.
The other was, I think that headlights had to be symmetrical and no longer one fixed for high beam and one dipped.
Many RMs were not modified on this until the mid 70's

Hi Steven,

I got the colour match at our local bodyshop paint supplier, these people supply paints for the motor trade and there will be one or two in every town throughout the country. They can actually now supply 2 pack paint in aerosols which is much better than the aerosols which you can buy in the likes of Halfords. I also use a Company when I want larger quantities of paint called Industrial Paint Services Newport. The paint we used for the chassis is 2 pack and is actually used on ships and could be painted directly on to rusty metal providing the surface rust is removed.

If you email me your address I am more than happy to send you a sample of the brown along with the code so that if it turns out to be any good then you can have it made locally.

Jack

We can't seem to find any records on 1357 between 81 when it came out of service and 86 when it was sold to Blackpool by LT. As you suggested it may well have been a driver training vehicle or used for other duties other than a bus, it may be that we will never know.

My bus number (if any): RML2583 and RM1357

Oh, Someone out there in bus wonderland will definitely know!!

Hi Martin

The Brown colour is very similar to British Leyland Huntsman Brown, a friend of mine used it on his 1930 Double Twelve Replica MG M type.

What was the twin pack makers name and colour shade reference no.? I can spray twin pack as I have the air mask.

Matt

My bus number (if any): RML 2547

Ref. the question of windscreen washers. I always understood that washers were not required if the windscreen could be opened (hence the requirement for washers on the RMAs which had a one piece fixed screen). I don't think the year of manufacture comes into it but I may be wrong.

My bus number (if any): RM1001

You are right Mike, it is unlikely the top screen would have been sealed and a washer fitted with London Buses even if it had been a trainer, although as you know a lot of lower screens were riveted shut. Perhaps it was an addition for service with Blackpool or the Navy.

Although Ian's bus stop shows withdrawal in 1982 at Cricklewood (W) this was not the case, it was not at W in 1982!! RM 1357 had an overhaul at Aldenham in July 1983 when it came in from Battersea (B) with body 1306 and left with the same body. RM 1357 returned to and re-entered service at B in August 1983 and was transferred to Victoria in November 1985.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

Brian,

Thanks for the info, you are correct Ian's bus stop does state it came out of service in 82, my mistake.

It also states incorrectly that the Leyland engine was replaced by an AEC engine by Reading Mainline, my information is that Reading Mainline fitted a replacement Leyland engine which came out of Dave Paskall's bus.

Could you let me know where you were able to research RM1357, it would be nice to fill in all the missing gap from 85 to 88 .

My bus number (if any): RML2583 and RM1357

Hi Martin
Ian Smith states that his RM records are incomplete and he has never claimed any degree of completion or accuracy for his records, for the RMs there is a still a lot of data missing. I can only give you the information up to 1985 for your bus, this came from a work in progress which I am assisting with in a small way. The last location is at GM I have no further information beyond that date that is not on Ian's records for the bus.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

The fold out windscreen if operational i.e can be opened, would not require a washer bottle / supply to the windscreen, my WW2 Jeep I used to own had a hinged screen and was thus exempt from the requirement to have a washer fitted.

Matt

My bus number (if any): RML 2547

Hi Matt,

I also had a WW2 Jeep and in fact have had one for many years and recently sold it in order to buy RM1357.

That's true that you don't need washer jets if you have a folding windscreen. Every year when its MOT was due I would take it to an old boy down the road who would say every year "you should have washer jets, but I'll pass it this time and look into it for next year". This went on for at least 15 years until the old boy passed away.

Thanks guys for your comments on this thread, very useful information. I will give details of the colour codes we used along with some pictures in the future.

Regards

Martin

My bus number (if any): RML2583 and RM1357

Thanks Martin, I also had a GMC 352 6x6 which was nice, I had about 5 WW2 Jeeps in all over the years, probably the best car I ever had!

My only car now is a 1930 MG Special, looks like a toy against an RML!

Matt

My bus number (if any): RML 2547

Martin

Not including overhauls and repaints, here is the LT history that I have recorded for RM1357.

11/62 - ALDu, 12/62 - SW, 3/64 - SWu, 5/64 - SW, 9/67 - NB, 9/71 - NBu, 10/71 - SF, 12/71 - SFu, 1/72 - BW, 9/74 - PM, 8/76 - BN, 2/78 - AD, 9/79 - R, 7/80 - B, 11/85 - GM, 11/87 - AECu, 4/88 - Vu,

If you or anyone else needs any histories, please ask, and I will have a look and see what I have.

Andrew

My bus number (if any): RM1368

I'm looking for a WW2 jeep to part exchange for an RT I have my eye on!

My bus number (if any): RM238, RM471 and RM2213

Hi Chris

There are a few WW2 Jeeps about, the Ford GPW was only made 1941-45, the WIllys MB 41-45 but some were made under licence by Hotchkiss post war, they are essentially the same but some are 24volt system.

Beware of people trying to pass off Hotchkiss as WW2 as it is very difficult to tell if they have been done well.

The Hotchkiss Jeeps are pretty much identical and were put through the Maltournee works in France for overhaul and are usually very sound and good condition, Maltournee to Jeeps was what Aldenham was to Routemasters.

I owned 5 Jeeps all Ford GPW's but don't have any now, but have restored them and know what to look for if you need any pointers, try Steve Rivers at Dallas Autoparts at Newbury or Graham Lycett at Jeep Parts UK at Atcham Shrewsbury, they are both good dealers who I have used over the years for parts

Thanks

Matt

My bus number (if any): RML 2547

I know this has nothing to do with paint colours or washer jets, although the jeep didn't have a washer jet and neither did the standard RM which is where this all started!

As a guide Chris, I sold this on ebay in March for £12,600, it was a 1942 Willys which I restored back in 1992 so it was an older restoration but it was a genuine WW2 Jeep. Like Routemasters a few years ago these were changing hands for about £5k a piece, now I would say you would expect to pay £10k - 15K for a good one. It will remain to be seen if selling this to purchase another RM was the best investment choice as there appears to be plenty of choice of RM's for sale at the moment although my view is that some of them are probably unrealistic prices.

Andrew - Back to the subject of Routemasters thank you very much for the information on RM1357 which is very useful.

My bus number (if any): RML2583 and RM1357