I'm looking to place advertising on my bus and wonder if anybody knows the in's and out's of the copyright laws.
When not advertising a product or company i would like to run with something along the lines of a Union Jack flag with the slogan of "The Best of British".
I am open to suggestions of alternative slogans that would be suitable.

My bus number (if any): RML 2478

Graham,

I would also be interested to hear of views about adverts, as London buses without them look too bare. I am even considering eg. a PAN AM advert as they do not exist now. The team at Ensigns may help as they like adverts on there fleet.

My bus number (if any): RM 1058

Generally any brand, either still with us or not, has an owner who 'owns' the Interlectual Property Rights (IPR). This can be through takeover, usage or registered mark.

There are various 75 year old rules that make use easier but obviously this doesnt affect RM's.

It is in short a minefield, and the key area of risk is clearly brands that are still in use. For example, on RT8 we wanted to use a Wrigleys advert, we wrote to them, received permission to do so, and lots of assistance from them in colours and detail. My advice on using something current would be to write a letter and ask, I have never yet been refused.

If the brand is no longer in use but the owner of the IPR is fairly obvious, for example in Stratford we had a Flowers Ale advert, which was swallowed up by one of the big beer groups, a polite letter will do no harm. Again we received a very pleasant letter offering us help to get the advert right and purely asked to sign a waiver that we had no claims on the trademarks.

Then you get into brands where no obvious successor is apparent. There is no doubt that clearly the risk minimises alot as trade mark breaches are often based on damage to the brand and use, if neither is applicable then not much to argue... Equally if someone was unhappy and wanted it removed that is what they would ask, for the advert to be removed, if you refused and claimed it as your own that is when the legals would start.

There are many variables though... For example if you purchased a bus with original adverts as withdrawn from service, who is at fault? In my experience of trademarks, (of which for a bus operator I have a fair bit) would be that a court would deem that if you were that worried over its use you should have ensured they were removed... then who is liable... the advertising agent, TfL, LT etc etc...

Equally is the use of the LT name on vehicles... It was something that was always formally asked in the past, I wonder how many do it now?

In short, most companies would be delighted that you want to use their name as you see it as being iconic. They will want you to sign a waiver, not use it excessively commercially and perhaps send them some images for their internal use, such as in staff newsletters. If its a current brand, I would not run without permission.

Equally if you did put something on and had received no reply and the worst happened, if you can prove you made 'reasonable endeavours' the risk is very low.

Its very much a courtesy thing, you wouldn't want your photos taken off your website without some asking, if they ask you, the chances are you will be falttered they like them and give permission. In my expereince this how big brands have responded to the unusual request of recreating a period advert for a vintage London Bus.

Hope that helps, but as always on such matters, ensure you do your own research and are happy with the responses/results.

Cheers
Steve

There was one notable company that refused permission to use their adverts, there was a thread on the Old Bus owners emal group about it, I think it was Haig Whiskey, a very popular advert in its day, but again not too sure. As Steve says, its best to find out who owns the IPR for ther brands etc and ask.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

Steve
Many thanks for the comprehensive info regarding advertising.
I wanted to avoid problems if i could and this will help me greatly.
You mentioned the Stratford Blue Bus is she still in Stratford or has that depot closed.
Its on my doorstep but like all the places close at hand i never seem to go there.

My bus number (if any): RML 2478

There`s a certain well known store in Knightsbridge that has a very pro-active legal department when it comes to the infringement of their logo, advertising material and colour copyright. And they had some of the most prolific bus side advertising campaigns involving routes that passed their premises.

Being the prestigious store that they are/were, they also pioneered a new high quality type of material and adhesive for their side adverts in 1980. When peeled from the backing paper the actual `tin foil like` advert had minimal thickness (like gold leaf) and were amazingly sticky making them unbelievably difficult to get in situ. Advert fixers hated them. In the time it took to do one of these bus sides it would have been possible to do several conventional paste applied adverts. Admittedly they looked good and were of a quality that made them long lasting and almost immune to branch, weather and bus wash damage.

But if they were considered to be difficult to put on, that was nothing compared to getting the things off. They were almost impossible to shift having become welded to the paintwork. And this coincided with, and probably influenced, a new approach to advert fixing. An idea was trialled regarding Advert Fixer productivity. It takes only a couple of minutes to paste apply a front or rear advert and a bit longer to do the sides. But it takes much, much longer to scrape an advert off and restore the metal to a condition ready for the next one to go on. So why go to all that time (ie: money) and trouble when the quickest option is to simply paste a blank paper over a contract expired advert. And that`s how we got that epidemic of pink `blanks` covering adverts in 1982.

But the `posh `adverts in question had a sheen that prevented blank paper and even paint from sticking. Covering them wasn`t an option - they had to come off by scaping and peeling. It was ridiculously time consuming. And at Mortlake we had loads of these. Our Advert Fixer got to the point where he hated coming to work! We had just got permission to run 1563 without adverts as 1980`s posters ruined a 1960`s appearance. But to prevent the inevitability of having scraper gouges in the paintwork if these `horrid` adverts were taken off by the Advert Fixer, we asked him if we could do it ourselves. He was over the moon! And that`s how I know how difficult it was as it took a few hours each evening for a week to do both sides. I even bought a hair dryer to use as a heat gun!

When the next slogan for this particular store became a bus advert, a different quality material was used - presumably after LT complained. By then, advances in printing techniques favoured longer lasting vinyl adverts in preference to flimsy paper applied with messy paste. But vinyl was slower to apply to bus sides if creases were to be avoided and the advert (which would immediately stick on contact) was to be properly lined up. With paste there was some leeway in that if the advert wasn`t straight it could be unpeeled and repositioned. No wonder things moved on to give us advert frames into which pre-printed waxed boards could be inserted in less time than a vinyl could be applied. How many preservationists have been quick to condem advert frames only to find in addition to rivet holes that need filling, the previously hidden panels have a multitude of unsightly deep scraper gouges which become even more noticeable when the panel is repainted. Authenticity at a big price....

You can use vehicle wrap vinyls, banner prints which go on the side of the bus are fairly easy to do, even a low resolution about 200 DPI should be scalable to bus size, more so if in .eps format.

This allows you to have printed an image in millions of colours i.e photo quality.

Of course as said earlier get permission in writing before using the logo but on the plus side the company you feature gets free advertising. Esp. if the bus gets used in film work.

The refurbished buses have channels which a foam board should fit in, have your ads stuck to this and you can insert or remove the ad panels in minutes without damaging your paintwork.

Ideal if you use your bus for corporate client work

Matt

My bus number (if any): RML 2547

We use vinyl a lot for our work, its relatiely easy to apply and as Matt says can produce excellent results, probably better than the original paper ads. It does have a down side and that is it takes the paint off when removed. For film work, its sometimes best to let them tell you what adverts to use to fit in with the period of the film.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs