Help Required

I am going to make a few Lower Saloon Conductors Blinds, I think that’s what they are called.
I need three, and I know a couple of other people that need some.
Firstly, is the blind in the photo correct?
Does anyone know the correct name and specification of the material?
Should they be red on the inside, and brown outer facing?
How many different types or styles of blinds were fitted to Routemasters over the years?

Thanks for your help.

Rob

Ps This is another one of those winter jobs.
If anyone else needs one let me know.

My bus number (if any): RM13

The blind on 531 is in pretty mint condition, having been rolled up and unused for most of its life it would seem. But I would like a drivers cab blind...should they be burgundy or black? Will you be getting these made at the same time?

My bus number (if any): RM531

Rob
Yes that is the later type of Conductors N/S blind. Originally these blinds were full width but after the shield was fitted to the last bulb on the N/S the left part of the blind was cut away to allow conductors and passengers to see where they were and going!! I don't know the date of the mod, maybe someone does as it would affect the authenticity of RM 13.

The blind is leathercloth stitched to make the concertina joints, but what type I don't know, but I know a man who does, so will get back to you next week, the RT blinds are the same material. Not sure about the colour on the front, is that one brown?

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

Just been up the barn, and looked at RM1797, it has a black Drivers blind.
I have just found this one in the shed, it looks like a NOS one, but its burgundy on the inside and Brown on the outside, the same as the Conductors colours.

Could this be the original one, that was superseeded because of cost?

Steve, if the conductors ones are ok, I can get some drivers ones made. The conductors one that I have looks good until you open it,the thread is rotten and breaks away.

Brian, yes the conductors one is brown on the other side





Any input welcome

Rob

My bus number (if any): RM13

I can`t remember exactly when the drivers blinds started to appear in black to replace the original burgundy leathercloth but at a guess it was early eighties.

As the material of the black blinds was not as thick as the leathercloth versions it made them much easier to furl so that when not in use they would reliably stay on those rather small hooks. A leathercloth blind was difficult to furl neatly and the weighted end was so thick that it often barely sat on those hooks. An accidental knock or even going over a bump would easily dislodge it causing a fall downwards on one side or perhaps the entire thing. Especially if it had only been held on one hook in the first place as the hook nearest the kerb was nearly always used to hang your jacket!

Rob
The ones you have pictured are the original colours, the all black ones are much later, around the time of black driver's seat material?
The 3/4 N/S blind is not the original style though as I am sure that the lamp shield's were introduced well into RM production around 1965/66 and so for an original condition RM, RM 13 for example and as far as I can see most production RMs, a full width conductors blind would be appropriate but you would have to remove the lamp shield. When do you want to know about the material? I can find out 100% certain next Wednesday.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

Wow! That drivers blind is lovely, what I would do to get my hands on that!!!!
Let me know when you are ready to "go" with the drivers, and if you want deposit etc

(My drivers blind is black, and torn)

My bus number (if any): RM531

If my memory serves me well. I bought that blind from a stall at Cobham over 20 years ago for my RT, got it home, opened it up, and to my disappointment, it was for an RM, as most things were then, so it went in the shed until now, in hindsight what a good buy, spot on for RM13.

Rob

http://gallerybob.fotoblog.co.uk/

My bus number (if any): RM13

As a matter of interest I managed to pick up a couple of RM Driver's blinds from the Cobham sale on Sunday for a fiver each. One needed the plywood that forms the frame along the top replaced, but aside from that it's perfectly OK. I've been searching for a proper burgundy blind to replace the later style one that's currently on 1699 and it's taken me nearly 13 years to find one!

My bus number (if any): RM1699 Eastbourne Regent V 69 (KHC369)

Rob,

I sent you an email. I guess, like usual, it may ger put in your spam! If you don't get it let me know and I'll resend it!

Regards,

Jim

My bus number (if any): RLH62

Rob,

Just to throw another spanner in...

The blinds were actually 3 colours.

Burgundy thick leathercloth

Black thinish leathercloth

Dark Blue thinish leathercloth

I have got new versions of all 3 types if you would like patterns.

Incidently, some of the London Bus companies produced new type blinds fitted to the refurbs but I have to say they were c##p!!

Andy

My bus number (if any): too many to mention

Andy,
Yes Please, if I could borrow them as patterns.
I have a blind fitted on RM1797, it’s a cheap copy of some sort, and you are right about the quality.

Still need to source the material, Brian is helping with that, unless anyone else has any info.

Regards
Rob

My bus number (if any): RM13

We think the material is vynide, so I got a sample from Woolies sent over, but now it has arrived its not thick enough for a night blind in fact it would make a good replacement for the rexine on the side panels etc. colour and grain are very similar. A google shows that it was used for train seats instead of moquette, so it seems there were different thicknesses of this and probably a double sided option. What LT used it was probably a specially bought in item, and to get the right effect now it might have to be double thickness with a maroon on one side and a brown on the back. Will keep investigating!!

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 and RMC 1458

The blinds are made up from two layers of fabric. Sewn back to back and then pleated as well as edged to retain the crimping.
The best way to assertain the thickness of the individual textile is to separate an early one.
Early ones were leathercloth but replaced very early (possibly 1960) with 'Leatherette' and were the same supplier/manufacturer that provided leatherette for trimming Jaguar cars. (the 240 and 340 had 'leatherette' instead of real hide seats and door panels.) This is now known vinyl or viyide

Jack
The one my upholsterer friend looked at to decide it was probably vynide from was an old RT one, we didn't want to take it apart but can. The early RM blinds wwere made of the same material.The fabric certainly looks like rexine or leathercloth but they are all very similar and a lot are just trade names. Vynide however is not modern and the material on the RT blind has got a more "plasticy" feel and finish to it than leathercloth. The blinds are certainly double sided and as you say hemmed all over the place to make the pleats. I believe that the Foreman of the Trim Shop at Aldenham, Ken Brown is involved in bus preservation, with the passing of Dick Smith, Ian's dad he might be the only person who can say for sure what they were made from. Anyone know or in contact with Ken Brown?

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 and RMC 1458

I would like a blind as well Rob when you are taking orders.

Does Ken Brown live in Hertfordshire as there is a member of RMOOA call Ken Brown from Hertfordshire

My bus number (if any): RM1403

Might well be the same Ken Brown David, Aldenham was in Hertfordshire and a lot of the staff lived in the surrounding towns. I can get a contact address for him when I get back to France as he is also in the Aldenham Works Association unless you would like to contact him.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 and RMC 1458

Due to data protection crap, I cant publish his details or give them to anyone without his permission but what do you want me to ask him if I ring him.

David

My bus number (if any): RM1403

I have made contact with Ken Brown and he has told me the story of blind making at Aldenham
During Ken's time at Aldenham and then Chiswick, the blinds were brown on one side and maroon on the other. The material used was Vynide as said before. The material was made by ICI. Ken thinks that the black blinds were made when brown and maroon was no longer available from ICI. The blinds were brought in from another manufacturer after Aldenham was shut down.
I dont know if any one else has a maroon / brown blind in their bus which Rob can copy but the information from the trim shop manager at Aldenham is excellent news from the horses mouth so to speak.

Rob. I would like the Maroon/brown blind for 1403 please

My bus number (if any): RM1403

Hi Rob,
How are the blinds progressing , any idea of costs yet ?

mark

My bus number (if any): RML2391

Hi Mark,
Not much progress, I have been unable to find the right material, I will only make them if they look correct, so until I can locate the material, its on hold.
Can anyone out there point me in the right direction.

Happy New Year to All.

Regards

Rob

My bus number (if any): RM13