Given the recent rise in fuel costs I am looking for a way to insure that the fuel i buy stays in my tank and doesn't find its way into someone elses.
Does anyone know of a way to secure the fuel cap without it looking like "Heath Robinson"has been at work or is there an anti syphon device that fits the filler neck?

My bus number (if any): RML 2478

All our trucks are now fitted with an anti syphon device. Truck motor factors stock several types one of which I know fits easily into and RM tank without compromising the closer seal. We fitted a few to both RT and RMA types about 6 years ago.

Off the top of my head I cannot recall which brand it was.

unfortunately if thieves are daring enough to break into your premises or enter your property with syphoning equipment , they will probably have the gear to drill the tank and get the fuel that way as it's fairly easy to get at the tank underneath if they can't access the filler neck . Although a good idea to lock the filler , not sure if its worse to lose the fuel and have to repair the tank as well or just lose the fuel ? I would guess at the shocking rate fuel is increasing this problem is going to be a big issue soon.

Mark

My bus number (if any): RML2391

From experience fuel thieves tend to look for easy prey, breaking into premises to steal small quantities of fuel is quite rare. Nonetheless you are vulnerable when you park up in Motorway Service areas or industrial estates. Forget the old adage that is best to park in well lit, heavily used areas.
A Fuel thief will work on the basis that as long as they look official and blend in, no one is going to query them. Some will have the stereotypical white van, but others are more sophisticated and drive vans in similar liveries to the well-known vehicle recovery agents.

We are based at South Mimms and this has been a hot bed for diesel theft in the past. Thankfully now CCTV, 24hr DVLA ANPR, and a regular Police presence has helped scare many of the opportunists away.

But there are a couple of suggestions and things to look out for. If your parking two buses in an unprotected area, park them as close as to can, tank to tank, so that the crooks need to move one or other bus to reach the fuel tank.

Otherwise If your parking one bus try to find something very solid to park up against.

Beware of people hanging around petrol stations. Although it will not affect the enthusiast who is invariably paying for fuel themselves, fleet operators do suffer loss though individuals asking to buy fuel from the driver before filling their Lorry or Coach. These people can be a nuisance and quite intimidating. Also it is possible for crooks to siphon your fuel while your waiting to pay the cashier.

If your parking near a fence, ensure its not possible for someone hiding behind to siphon through a hole in the fence.

If you see someone working near your vehicle, keep a very close eye. We had one nicely presented Van arrive here, apparently on the basis of carrying out a repair on a bus parked in our yard. What they were doing was actually trying to steal from the vehicle. I became suspicious and when I approached them, they told me the owner had booked the bus for repair.
Although without telling them I was the owner, I asked a few more questions which proved they were rumbled. But if I was not the owner, I would have been satisfied with their initial explanation and possibly offered them a cup of tea!

In know of one owner of an RCL parked in Harrow, that while sitting in the bus saw a couple people trying to steal their fuel. When challenged the crooks claimed their van had broken down, had no money and the local petrol station had told them they could help themselves to the fuel in the bus.

The most audacious, was a lorry on the M25 with a Motorway Maintenance sign on the rear. With lights flashing and horns blasting he pulled alongside me and made it clear he was trying to flag me down. The nearside passenger was pointing to my fuel tank. Assuming a leak, I pulled off the motorway only to be approached by a dodgy chap wanting to buy fuel.

But anyway if you want to fit an anti siphon device, try DipStop on 01939 251351. They make a cage which fits inside the filler neck. We fitted them to all our Olympians as they were particularly susceptible to fuel theft.

The fitment it is not visible from the outside so requires no modifications. As well as stopping theft they help to prevent people dropping objects like plastic gloves into the fuel tank.


Dean

My bus number (if any): 889, 1069, 1487, 2272, 2428, 2429

Thanks Dean
I will try the anti syphon device.
The only other thing i can think of doing is to run the bus low on fuel and top her up with just enough for the days activities.This way i won't be losing a tank full.What is this country coming to?

My bus number (if any): RML 2478

Graham,
can you let us know how you get on with this . Might be worth asking if buying quite a few would get a discount . I'm sure quite a few of us would invest in one of these .

mark , rml2391

My bus number (if any): RML2391

Theres pro & cons to running a tank low.

It is claimed that condensation can build up inside a partly empty tank, and by virtue of concentration theres the risk of contaminates entering the fuel filters.

However if left for a long time, fuel can go stale. Algae can also grow in modern fuel , which will block fuel filters and can damage fuel pumps. Although there are a few treatments on the market which can remove this.

More importantly, in cold weather fuel will start to wax at about -14. The wax blocks the fuel filters leaving to fuel starvation. We had a number of buses affected just before Christmas. The manager of the motorway services here, tells me there is Winter & Summer diesel.

Of course if your taking your bus to rallies and fuelling in the summer, then its likely you have summer diesel which might be affected by the ravages of the long winter months.

We use a mix of fuel bought regularly in bulk, and purchase fuel from the filling station next door. They have a very high turnover of fuel, so it would be easy to assume we are using winter diesel. Nonetheless despite this we had a number of buses which needed our engineers attention on the coldest mornings.

Although I am certainly not recommending anyone else follows this, but we did place a small amount of petrol (around 5 litres) into the tanks of the worse affected vehicles. Like I say its not recommended, but the risk of bus being hit from the rear end while broken down on a fast-moving road, outweighed the mechanical consequences.

Dean

My bus number (if any): 889, 1069, 1487, 2272, 2428, 2429

I used to work with an old chap who worked for most of his life at the Shell oil refinery at Ellesemere Port. The petrol and diesel manufacured there goes out in tankers marked "Shell" "Esso" "BP" amongst others such as the supermarket brands...in reality it all comes from the same place whatever the brand, just different additives are added to the blend as the driver loads at the island. he told me many yaers ago that there definately is "winter" and "summer" blends of diesel, designed to stop or reduce the waxing which used to be so common. (Remember trucks with small fires beneath them warming the tank?). He always advocated adding a small amount of petrol to diesel, firstlt to, in his words, "give it a bit more oomph" and secondly, to reduce waxing and aid cold weather starting. He added it to his then new diesel Austin Maestro, although I have personally never tried it....

My bus number (if any): RM531

Re the Petrol in Diesel - With modern engines it’s not recommended, but for our refurbished & non refurbished Routemasters, I would suspect it would be OK. Our Polish fitters swear by it. Although I had to break the news gently to our Fleet Manager.

And your right, most fuel comes from a limited number of refineries around the Country. Like most operators, we buy our fuel in bulk from the lowest cost supplier, but if you trace it back – it all comes from the same place.

Its also possible that certain sites might be branded as say BP, but sell what is known as Bunker fuel. Basically that’s fuel replenished back into the vendor’s tank by the various fuel card companies. So if they sell 30,000 litres, a truck will arrive and refill the vendor’s tank with their fuel. Of course it then mixes with everyone else’s as a result.

My bus number (if any): 889, 1069, 1487, 2272, 2428, 2429

Around twelve years ago I used to do some part time work for a well known Lancashire based coach company that ran holiday tours all over the UK and mainland Europe. It was a standing instruction to drivers (and printed in their handbook) that any coach going to a traditional Winter snow destination such as Austria had to have a quantity of petrol added each time diesel was purchased. And it was, to my thinking, quite a lot of petrol - many litres to each full tank.
These were usually brand new vehicles and nearly always Volvo. I`m not sure if I still have one of those handbooks but I`d like to find one as the ratio of petrol to diesel was so surprisingly high.

In LT days they had contracts with all the main fuel suppliers and garages were "fuel grouped",but LT could switch suppler in the event of a strike (a practice that caused a number of fuel spills and losses over the years) however most of the fuel came from one or two depots Wandsworth being one and another in East London I think it was Silver Town where Esso, BP and Shell tankers all loaded up.

Not sure about putting petrol in diesel its already 7 or 8% sunflower oil now here in France anyway, people might swear by it but some people also advocate putting new vegetable oil in the tank to save money, not sure what damage putting petrol in would do or what dangers there are for example could an injector blow up?

We have a simple bar fitted through the fuel filler caps with a chain attached to the bar and that is padlocked onto the filler panel which prevents the filler being opened. This is mostly to stop thins being dropped in!!Fuel theft is not a new thing its being going on for years. Rob Duker for one had his fuel taken long before the latest price hike in the UK.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

Thanks to everybody for their invaluable help.
I will be trying the anti syphon device as i have been visited again by "The Man with a can"and pipe.
The really anoying thing is i think i know who it is but its catching him that is the problem.We have CCTV watching the site but it has not picked up any strangers only people that have a right to be there.I may have to put a camera direct on the bus.
Reading the comments about adding petrol to Diesel took me back many years to a time when i worked for a guy who owned a Latil winch truck,regularly in the winter he added petrol and i was the one who had to hand crank it to start it.That "Thing!"%*" kicked like a mule and after suffering a broken thumb he calmly said "It only does that in the winter I reckon its the petrol that does that!!!
I was also witness to a D series Ford lorry engine running backwards [ the fitters in the garage ran in all directions]they put that down to incorrect fuel.
I tend not to use the old girl during the winter months[the cab heater is useless]and the chances of being rear ended in the dark in our part of the country are high.Slow down whats yer hurry.

My bus number (if any): RML 2478

Been told the dipstop device is £79 + the dreaded vat !

mark

My bus number (if any): RML2391

Thats a lot cheaper than a full tank of fuel or having the hassle of running out of fuel on the road.

They are certainly worthwhile.

Dean

My bus number (if any): 889, 1069, 1487, 2272, 2428, 2429

In the late 70's, when diesel waxing in exposed pipes from lorry diesel tanks seemed more prevalent, I worked for a haulage firm who regularly added 2 gallons of petrol to a full tank of diesel in the winter months- it certainly stopped the freezing and didn't seem to affect the engines then, apart from them smoking a bit more. I also remember the local gypsies adding paraffin to their fuel tanks to no doubt save a bit of money. The JCB where I work now had terrible waxing problems during the last cold spell and it was blamed on old stock summer diesel with no additives - all was fine when winter diesel was supplied.

My bus number (if any): RML 2747 Gash Daimler DD6

The answer is DON"T do it unless you have deep pockets or run a vehicle for business.
The end result is damage to the injectors and cylinder liners.
The method works but causes rapid wear but it is not such a problem if you run a big fleet as the replacement cycle may be reached before the engine fails.
The costs can be borne against depreciation and capital expenditure allowances but this is not an ideal option for a hobby bus.

That`s a very clear and no doubt experience based warning which deserves to be taken on board. It thus makes what I mentioned a few posts previously even more incredulous for these were new coaches being maintained not by the operator but on a Volvo contract. They must have known about and therefore sanctioned this practice which would appear at odds with warranty issues. And, yes, this did involve a rolling fleet replacement programme where vehicles were sold on with warranty cover still valid. Makes you wonder about problems stacked up for the next user.

I also know of an incident a couple of months ago where an experienced driver filled a new Volvo coach up with petrol (yep, I know it sounds unbelievable but it really happened) and then managed to drive it several miles. Over £6000 worth of repairs plus the loss of the fuel and two weeks downtime.

And I know of an RM in the early days of preservation that befell a similar fate.......

I well recall the misery of waxing diesel. Hours spent beside the road, frozen to the marrow, trying to get vehicles to keep running. Many times the problem was made worse, because the driver had either flattened the batteries, or occasionally melted a fuel pipe by lighting a bonfire under the vehicle, in an effort to warm up the fuel. Once the vehicle was running the next problem was that the air system had frozen up as well.

Fortunately, more sensible siting of fuel filters along with fuel filter heaters and air-driers on more modern vehicles has helped a great deal.

I remember too some Colonel Blimp who was "going to call the Police", because my breakdown van was deliberately partially blocking the road, in order to protect me while working on the vehicle's offside. The idiot didn't realise that this was exactly what I really wanted, because then I could work in safety. All I wanted to do was get it running long enough to drive 50 yards round the corner onto a quiet housing estate.

Received brochure from Dipstop ( JBL Engineering . Shrewsbury) today .
To fit this device you need to remove the cap assembley from the tank filler neck , the dipstop is then pushed into the filler neck to its flange and then the cap assembley is refitted . A bit of 'locktite' can be used to secure it in place .

Just need to check the internal diameter of the filler pipe to see if it will fit , needs to be slightly less than 3.8" or 96mm.

If there are enough owners interested I will enquire if there could be a discount for a bulk purchase of these devices

Mark

My bus number (if any): RML2391