There is an e-petition on the Government web site which I would hope all followers of bus and railway preservation could support, given the current high incidence's of metal theft from the UK's bus museums/collections and preserved railways. It calls for appropriate changes to the Scrap Metal Merchants Act 1964, and needs to have 100,000 signatories, but currently only stands at about 22,000. Please visit the site and click 'Sign this petition'.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/406

Please sign up to this petition and e-mail as many of your contacts to do so as well !
It's not just the preservation movement that would benifit from this but also Churches,Schools and public buildings that are having the lead stripped from their roof etc.

My bus number (if any): was RM196 sort of

Already signed up. Should have been dealt with firmly right from the start but it's crooks and cowboys in the scrap business. They have cost our firm £thousands in the last 12 months alone. One lot even stole the brake pipes off a trailer whilst at a service stn. It could have been catastrophic had the driver not been diligent enough to check his trailer and brakes.

Cannot understand why it has to take a petition to get this sorted, it should not need to even be discussed, just acted upon.

..Still if that's what it takes then I suppose it is at least us ordinary folk making democracy happen!

I couldn't agree with you more Jack ! I surpose it's shows how society's change over the years-but I'm not going to get on my soap box.
I'd like to say that over this weekend alone over a 1,000 people have added their names to this petition !
All I ask is that if everybody that view's this web site would read and sign this petition and to inform as many of their friends to do the same we might make a difference and get something done about it.

My bus number (if any): was RM196 sort of

I have signed

Rob

My bus number (if any): RM2112

Just playing devils advocate, its a good cause, but we've had similar requests on here in the past urging petitions for this and that to change government policy, and the balloon went up for being in breach of the forum guidelines as stated at the top. Certain people such as the original poster, Claire Green and others seemed to get an unfair roasting for breaking the "rules". It could be argued thar Claires post was "more" bus related. What is different now?

In case people have forgotten, its here-
http://pub44.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3715842662&frmid=32&msgid=1160341&cmd=show

My bus number (if any): RM531

I can quite see that a potential conflict of interests arises here and I do understand that double standards antagonise people.

But when you consider how many preservationists have no choice but to keep vehicles and equipment in blatently remote locations devoid of effective security, this is an issue that could so easily escalate. Nobody on the brink of making a few quid is going to be troubled by the scarcity of the item about to be lifted. Could the wording at the top of the forum intro include provision `at the moderators discretion` for comments on subjects of likely importance?

About time the forum rules were changed then, especially as this will more than affect the owners of RM's and earlier buses who seem to think the world of bus preservation stopped with the RM or RT and anything newer than 1972 shouldnt be allowed to enter the city that they were built for.

No good for you Brian as this is UK only and you live in France which isn't affected.

Claire

My bus number (if any): RML 2330 etc

I feel that although this petition may not be entirely bus related as Steve has sugguested. Clare has pointed out it may affect all of us in some way if these theives are allowed to continue in the manner that they are doing !
Who will be the first to start shouting the odd's when their bus can't be used because bit's have been stolen from it or that their storage place has to close due to the number of break in's and the theft of equipment.
Personnaly in todays current ecconomic times, this is a far more important issue than worrying about road tax exemptions,exhaust emmissions etc etc.
Since I started peddeling this petition about on Saturday on various forums, web sites, enthusiasts blogs and local newspaper reports, over 2,000 have now added the surport !!!
I'm begining to have serious doubts about the whole preservation movement and what it stands for anymore.

My bus number (if any): was RM196 sort of

Did I not say at the start of my post that it was a good cause? It is the double standards that irritate me, not the cause. One person is berated for their (similar) post, another is allowed to run. As has been said, maybe the rules need adjusting. The moderators post is very difficult, with a balance between interesting debates, but also upholding the rules, and that includes setting precedents.

The scrap business is known for its ready money, ease of business and wads of grubby cash. Its greatest asset is its biggest downfall. We have all taken a load of scrap (usually body panels, battery cells or the like) to the local scrapman and walked away with a big smile on our faces, amaazed at what the rubbish which some people would have taken to the tip, had realised.

Unfortunately there is an element in our society (who usually congregate in beauty spots in caravans and transit vans) who operate above the law as Mr Plod is either afraid to tackle them, even with strong eveidence, or there is a reluctance to be seen as "racist", or, they simply disappear into the ether before the wheels of the legal process slowly move. It is these people and their ilk whose activities need curtailment, rather than giving them glory on TV shows.

Unfortunately there is also an element amongst ourselves, the bus souvenir thief, and also the rogue owner who stops at nothing to get the elusive part for their bus. It is highly unlikely that any parts robbed from preserved buses are stolen for scrap, these people know what they are after and the parts are stolen to order or stolen to sell on Ebay. Apart of course from our travelling friends who like to lift batteries, diesel etc and anything not tied down. Such as plaques from war memorials.

There are many rogues in the scrap business, like any other business. Some REALLY nasty characters. No amount of legislation will change the way THEY operate, and criminals know where to offload their swag where it will be melted into ingots and disappear very quickly indeed.

It is illegal to make white diesel out of red, it is illegal to operate for hire and reward without a licence, its illegal to carry more than 8 passengers without a PCV licence, illegal to operate without insurance cover....all of which goes on every single day. I applaud the cause, it may have a small effect, but I fear that it will generally have no effect whatsoever on thefts, as people always know where they can take stuff where no questions will be asked. The answer is more policing of existing rules, more police, better control on the activities of the travelling community...none of which is likely to happen. It really is a wider issue of what is happening in society today, if someone can steal a war memorial, and someone will take it in, cash or whatever, then we really are in trouble.

My bus number (if any): RM531

Whoa!! Lets get a few facts in here. The premise of this Forum is that it specifically and always has asked people NOT publicise their feelings about individuals, National or Local Government or TFL policy. We all know exactly why that request is there DON'T WE!!

The post Clare made was about existing government policy about the taxation of classic vehicles,which she has referred to again above, her post is not about scrap metal. I queried (not berated) whether that post was against the forum rules, not because it wasn't RM related as such. The concern I had was that if you let one post stand you then open up the floodgates, Chris obviously felt it wasn't a problem and the post stood.

I think Steve makes a fair point about double standards, but I think that everybody who posts here is sensible enough to realise which issues relate indirectly or directly to our buses and which are personal political vendettas from people with agendas. Ultimately it's for Chris to decide and I for one will accept his decision on blocking/allowing/deleting posts.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

I'd prefer the forum to be a useful resource and don't like it when arguments develop which eclipse the real purpose of this message board. This has happened again, so I have taken the same action I did on August 24th 2011.

Without wishing to offend any of the contributors to this thread so far I've decided to lock it. I'm not going to delete it so that the discussion so far and details of the petition remain available.

Thanks to all you contributors - you are the backbone of this forum.

I don't look at the forum every day so things will inevitably happen that may result in me being accused of operating double standards.

Usually contributors are sensible enough to keep to mature discussion and avoid publicising or denigrating feelings about individuals, National or Local Government or TFL policy.

This guideline is important because it is the reason several of you you asked me to reinstate and moderate this forum. I am also happy to pay the annual charge to keep it uncluttered by distracting advertising.

I'm looking into getting printed circuit boards made with bright LEDs that could be placed behind the lenses of the side, tail and stop lights as originally fitted to RMs, replacing the bulbs. Many other buses and lorries as well also diesel locomotives of the period use the same (?CAV) fitting. Could someone start a thread on this. I need to know whether there is any interest and whether somebody is already doing, or has done this. Will it upset traditionalists? Should they be dual circuited with the option to bright or dim for combined stop/tail lights?

My bus number (if any): RMs 238, 471 & 2213. GS 17