Hi,

I'm think I'm right in thinking that the rear interior bulkhead panels made with narrow herzim strip frame found inside the lower saloon (two on the O/S and one on the N/S) were fitted to all standard RM's and RML's.

Just looking to double check this before I went ahead and sourced some. You know what they say about assumptions....

Many thanks,

Tom

My bus number (if any): RML2344

I started a thread here on Herzim strip a few weeks ago. None in stock at the moment, minimum order was something like 100kg, enough to do the entire RM fleet from new.

Page down a bit...

My bus number (if any): RML2532 Keeping Europe's Routemasters on the road.

Thought it was only the early bodies which had the bulkhead advert panels. Later ones being blank.....an educated guess would be that it was deleted from 1356 onwards, when the aluminium herzim strip was deleted above the windows.

My bus number (if any): RM531

No they had an O/S bulkhead advert panel and a small enclosed panel on the O/S and N/S next to the window with chrome strip and plastic insert on buses that had lost the chromed cant rail mouldings, there are a number of views of buses with this mix of styles. This is one example http://www.flickr.com/search/?q=Routemaster%20interior#page=12
Not sure if it continued through the RMs and to the RMLs though. I cannot find an image of a later RM or RML. The curbed moulding around by the rear window pan on either side of the U/S which was also a chromed strip with plastic insert was changed to a flat moulding one at some stage and something is telling me that this was the same on the later RM/RMLs, all we need is an interior photo to show it!

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

I have spent hours looking through RML photos. These are the main problems...

1, I have found a few of RML's 880-903 which show the panels. This however proves nothing!

2, Most interior photos always seem to face forward (I’m guilty of this I have to say).

3, If I do find any photos then often the fleet number is not recorded (is it an RM or RML).

4, The web is more full of refurbished RML's!

However these are the best I have got so far!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16313630@N07/5829381177/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/routemaster_rml2323/3080109010/sizes/l/in/photostream/

Very hard to tell but I reckon they are fitted. The gray surrounds were all replaced when most of the RML's were refurbished so it makes sense that these panels where replaced as well.

I thought I was getting somewhere when I found RML 2306 which is in preservation but carries an un-refurbished body. Problem is that 2306 was scrapped for spares at Wombwell Diesels. The rest of RML body is said to be constructed from RCL and RM parts. There I decided that this was not conclusive.

Roy, yes I did read your topic and you may remember I replied. Once I’m 100% sure they were fitted I’m going to give myself the challenge of sourcing some!

Hope this all reads well. Its 0211 and i'm a bit tired now.

My bus number (if any): RML2344

RMl 2760 would be the one to check - (currently laid up I believe sadly] but i'm sure all RML's had the rear bulkhead herzim strip panels prior to refurb.

My bus number (if any): RML 2747 & W.Gash & Sons DD6

If Chris checks his RM 2213 that will tell us if the shiny aluminium plastic insert moulding surrounded panels were continued on the RML's rear bulkheads. All the interior mods, flat cant rail mouldings, large stanchion cups, multi-slat flooring, flat moulding round rear windows etc had been done by the time Chris's B 2136 was built,( except the odd trim colour changes and white ceilings) so if that has the shiny moulding with plastic inserts round the panels on the bulkheads then so did the RMLs.
EDIT The one I flagged earlier here http://www.flickr.com/photos/buses-international/5956317035/ is on B1799, it doers have the panels and is well into the batches that no longer had discarded the aluminium cant rail mouldings.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

Hi

Does this help your quest ...
I took interior pictures of RCL 2229 before the restoration for the LT Museum began. Having just looked at these they clearly show the bulkhead panels with the herzim `jam sandwich`strip.
The rearmost window pan surrounds on the u/d don`t have it.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/16313630@N07/5621164119/

You can just about make it out to the left of the picture.

This was something I just wanted to make sure of before I started sources the bits.

Many thanks Neil, Brian, and Graham.

Tom

My bus number (if any): RML2344

Like I said in my Herzim strip thread, the ORIGINAL is still available, but only in quantity! The chap I found has the ORIGINAL Herzim dies as used by PRV. The original company was also based in Park Royal.

I have recently had some samples for my 4RF4 form the exterior, and the section matches exactly.

As to what buses had what, when I ran Nostalgiabus, all our RMs had the Herzim interior bulkhead panels; RMC1462 had the Herzim above the windows inside, as did WFO410 ( I forget the fleet number), and the ex Watford & District one that was used as a donor roof for 1462. I still have the Herzim from that bus in stock. It is not chrome plated, but polished. The other Herzim was supplied in what is called mill finish i.e. unpolished.

My bus number (if any): RML2532 Keeping Europe's Routemasters on the road.

sorry for poor quality image (taken with borrowed iPad)

My bus number (if any): RMs 238, 471, 2213 and GS17

At least this site and the other channel always manage to deliver reliable sources.

But don't rely on flicker or the internet as so much has been posted by people who just don't know or deliberately place misleading facts. Poorly captioned and dated pictures are all but useless when searching for historical or chronological accuracy.
The tried, tested and trusted way is to research using the handful of authoratative books and the excellent facility at the LTM.



I've used their library several times as well as checked actual archives. It takes a while.
By the way, the LTM is like Fort Knox to access but remind them that they received a huge heritage lottery grant for the purpose of public user access and it must be seen to be used. They don't like it but it works every time.
By the way, RML 2760 has those panels on the offside .

That is a very good point!

I find that many people (and this applies to almost everything) if they don't know something then they will guess. The problem is 9 out of 10 times they don't admit to guessing and will pass information off as fact.

I asked several people about these panels and one chap told me that they were never fitted to RML's!

It was at that point I thought I would put this to a forum. I'm very glad I did now! The only purpose I used flicker in this instance was just to see an unrefurbished RML with these panels.

My bus number (if any): RML2344

Tom, when I worked on route 19 in Kentish Bus days, we had RML 2715 which was one of the protoype RML refurbishments. It was the only bus which kept the small advert panerls which you have been enquiring around so I would assume that all RMLs were also fitted with then. In restoring 2400 I have discovered the original rivit holes which held the frames onto the rear bukhead behind the new panels that were fitted during refurbishment. Hope this helps.

My bus number (if any): RML 2400 RML 2512, RML 2514 RTL 47 RT 1320

Tom, i can confirm what Kelvin Platt said about the rivet holes in the rear panels. We are currently restoring RML2335 for Thisbus.com and i have found the old rivet holes behind the Formica/Aluminium panels that were fitted during the refurbs, i would bet you will find the same on your bus.

I can tell you these trim fittings (we call them "picture frames") will be available to purchase from Squirrel Preservation as two complete panels, we have supplied them a sample panel which can be seen at forthcoming rallies this year. We have already fitted a (prototype) set to RML2408 and can be seen in a restoration video i have posted on our Youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrVYHm51wnM

Try to stay with it (or skip forward) to 5.06 minutes to see the finished product.

(Bus & Coach Restoration Services, Tilsworth)

Thank you very much Dave.

That is a very good idea. Much appreciated.

Tom.

My bus number (if any): RML2344

RML2344 now has the panels fitted.

Many thanks for all the useful information posted here.

My bus number (if any): RML2344

My bus number (if any): RML2344