Thought this needed its own thread as such an important issue

Roy Wrote this

Hello David,
How high do you want the bus off the ground? Melco make a range of good reasonably priced axle stands. AS20 go up to about 18" at full height and will support 3 tonnes each. AS30 go to roughly 30" and carry 4 tonnes each. AS40 go to 40" and 6 tonnes each. Sealey make good cheap jacks of all sorts.

A pair of 8 tonne bottle jacks will not cost a fortune and will offer a good margin over the load expected. If you want to support a vehicle that has been lifted on 4 wheel post lifts high enough to walk under, then you will need to budget for about £1000 for a pair and make enquiries for recommendation from local heavy commercial garages. The best ones have screw tops to level the vehicle.

A 3 tonne trolley jack will not lift one corner of the bus so don't expect to find an easily portable trolley jack that will do the job. You must not jack up, or place axle stands, underneath the front boat.
If working outdoors take great care if it is windy, or hot enough to weaken tarmac, especially if the vehicle is more than a few inches off the ground.

In case anyone uses the search facility in future, if changing air bags, don't forget that the chassis needs to be supported because the vehicle will drop as soon as the air is let out of the air bag possibly trapping you!

There is an LT chart available from thermmanual.com which gives theoretical wheel weights and measurements for vehicles up to the Titan and Metrobus

My bus number (if any): RML2276 M1001 T806

Hello Roy

Thanks for the Information. I have ordered the Graham Walker sheet.

I have three buses and a set of column lifts but as yet no axle stands or in fact a decent Jack.

An RML, Titan and Metrobus so a varied weight and distribution due to engine position etc.

So for general use I need to be able to jack the buses for wheel changes etc or minor works. I understand the need to use axle stands and not rely upon the jack alone. I also understand the need to chock the wheels for safety and have purchased a set from HGV direct.

What is the required Jack and Axle stand capacity(and height requirements for that matter? I have been offered a reasonably good 5 ton jack but is it enough?

Then for the major work I have a set of column lifts. Due to restricted height in my workshop I can only lift to about 4 feet from the ground and need to sit to work! Not ideal but I do hope to eventually either convert the room supports or purchase the adjacent more suitable workshop. I can lift outside but a combination of wind issues, suspect concrete base and security limits outdoor use. I would prefer a set of tall axle stands with a 1200 to 1800 range so I can use them now and in the future.

I have been quoted £600 for a 1520 to 2040mm pair from Somers.

http://www.stkare.co.uk/products/Ancillaries/tall-support-stands.html

There are a Sealey 4 ton per stand sets on eBay at £270

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Sealey-Tall-High-Lift-Axle-Stands-4-8-tonne-AS4000H-/230376728087?pt=UK_Lifting_Moving_Equipment&hash=item35a385e617#ht_2750wt_1199

but they do not look very substantial. Again any advice would be useful.

The HSE also mention the problems with concrete bases if you do not know how it was laid. They also tell numerous accounts of vehicles crushing mechanics hence the concern. My workshop is a quarter of what was once a bus garage so I believe the base is sufficient but it maybe I need to core cut a section to test it.

My workshop is also my workplace and I need to comply with regulations.

I know you have answered some of the questions already but I am trying to get them in one place for future reference. I hope this will help others unsure of what to do

David

My bus number (if any): RML2276 M1001 T806

Hello David,

My copy of the official workshop safety guide is currently so safely filed away I can't find it. I would suggest enquiring of a crane hire company for advice on any "overload factor" for axle stands, jacks, slings etc. I currently use all the Melco stands I mentioned plus a pair of AS50 which extend to 50" max height, these are definitely rated for at least 16tonnes the PAIR, but may be as much as 20t the pair which is plenty of capacity for one end of an RM or Titan. This company make a range, not all of which I have mentioned. The crutch can be a vee or splayed channel section.

Sorry interrupted must go and continue later.

Some wise words there. I once jacked 1462 on tarmac and the jack went sideways. Luckily I was not near the bus at the time, so if I have to lift on tarmac I always use a block of wood to put the jack on.

Re changing air bags, there was a chap I knew, Roger "Dieselsmith"; he didn't block the coach he was lifting, the suspension came down and crushed his head. He was in a coma for a few years before he sadly died. A colleague who used to be the engineer for a company in Mitcham had an axle stand collapse on him as he was working under a coach. luckily he always made sure he worked under a place where he would not get crushed. That was easier under old style coaches with proper chassis, but not so easy under modern vehicles.
stands and column lifts.
DO NOT use cheap jacks; get good ones with a capacity of at least 8 tons for lifting buses. Not only do you have the safety margin built in, but they're easier to pump up. Same applies to axle stands. ALWAYS use the pins provided, not a screwdriver, socket extension bar or the like. You never know what they're made of and may shear under the weight.

Check anything to do with lifting before you use it. YOU might be the one under there when it falls on you.

Somers and others usually do a good line in secondhand axle. I suggest looking in the bus trade press for details.

My bus number (if any): RML2532 Keeping Europe's Routemasters on the road.

Thank you Roys.

Axle stands mentioned (and other garage equipment) are from

http://thomasmeldrumltd.co.uk/TyreBayToolsandGarageEquipment.aspx

Price list

http://thomasmeldrumltd.co.uk/Documents/2012%20Retail%20Price%20List.pdf



The AS50 set are 700mm to 1250mm rated 12 ton combined are £261.40 per pair so similar price to the flimsy looking Sealey set.



The AS60 set are 1450mm to 1750mm again rated 12 ton combined and are £326.48 per pair





When lifting my Titan for airbag replacement should I support the body with the axle stands and then lower the column lifts to drop the suspension and create the gap needed (presumably leaving the lifts in place to keep the axle supported). If so what part of the body will support the weight and should I put something between the body and the axle to prevent the gap closing.
I am becoming more safety conscious as I age!

My bus number (if any): RML2276 M1001 T806

Sounds about right for airbag replacement. you'll find it easier to replace the top plate and pedestals as well, and probably the levelling valves. the top plates are usually held on with a couple of 8mm studs. I usually attack the nuts with an air chisel, it's easier than trying to undo them!!

My bus number (if any): RML2532 Keeping Europe's Routemasters on the road.

To continue:
Apologies I read the wrong line for AS50 weights. I wouldn't even entertain changing any airbag without renewing the pedestal and top plate. MAN used to supply the bag on its own, unless you have the knack it is next to impossible to roll and unroll a very stiff bellows onto the two spigots; especially in situ. I hope you find that it comes as a three part assembled unit. If the job must be done in a day, then identify and have ready, replacements for any air connectors likely to be disturbed along with equal connectors so that any pipe can be cut and rejoined. Isolate the front lifts so that you can lower the rear axle on its own to allow plenty of access room. It is so long since I have beeen under a Titan that I can't tell you where to place the stands. Finally, two points: if using three legged stands ensure that the feet of each stand are in a different rotational orientation so that any alteration of level at the other end cannot tip the stands over and second: metal upon metal can slip (low coefficient of friction) so if there is any possibility that this could happen to a jack or a stand due to shape or angle, then place something like a piece of cardboard, rubber or emery between the surfaces.

David
I have in my possession a pair of axle stands and saddles manufactured specifically for the RML.
I understand that they came from one of the depots.
They look as if they would hold a house up let alone a bus.If interested contact me and i can forward pictures of them.
Graham

Hello Graham

yes please

I'll email you when I get to my office next

David

My bus number (if any): RML2276 M1001 T806