Hi, i'm sure this will cause a stir but...

... can anyone tell me the rules for seat belts on a routemaster, mine will only be used for private use.

or where i can go to get the offical ruling

cheers

My bus number (if any): RMF2771 (also known as RCN701)

No requirement to have them fitted
However...
If you want them fitted they will have to be fitted by an approved company and I think you will have to get the installation approved as part of an enhanced MOT which will cost extra each time on a class Va test and the MOT certificate will show number of belts fitted.

I don't know of any RM family that is seatbelted

Others will be able to improve on my basic info

Mark

My bus number (if any): RM1414 sort of and a leap of Leopards

There is no requirement for Routemasters or indeed any other older vehicles to be fitted with seatbelts. I can't remember the date for fitment to cars, something like 1988; for buses it's well into the late 1990's, and then only for large buses capable of exceeding 60mph and not used on local services to have belts fitted in the front seats only. fitment to all seats on such vehicles came in far later and is not retrospective.

In my view it would be daft to even think of fitting belts to an RM as the mods required would be extensive.

Next question

Would this non requirement still apply if it was being converted to personal use (almost a motor home)?

My bus number (if any): RMF 2771 (also known as RCN 701)

There is no requirement for Routemasters or indeed any other older vehicles to be fitted with seatbelts

Hi Matt
For your use you certainly don't need them. I looked in to this years ago when doing a risk assessment . If you check with Gilwell they will confirm as the bus was not intended to have them originally, no need to fit them now.
Best Chris

My bus number (if any): RML2368

Aw when 2 world collide i mentioned this to Gilwell in person at the info centre and the i look i was funny!

I also have got my section 19 permit, althought because there will alway be no more then 8 passengers this does not apply

(Everyone else - Gilwell is in referance to using my bus with some scouting projects, and a section 19 permit allowes you to drive a bus/minibus without having to comply with the full PSV operator licensing or PCV driver licensing requirements upto 16 passengers in a minibus or 8 in a bus, because as a youth club/scout group you are taking paying passengers because they have paid a member free to be apart of the group)

back to seat belts, VOSA have got back to me (with in a hour of emailing them, wow)

I asked them:
My routemasteris going to have only 12 passenger Seats, and a Class IV Mot in respect of seats, the bus never had seat belts in the first place, is there a requirement to have seat belts fitted, i'm not sure is the law is retros-pectic as its not being used as its orginal purpose anymore and being converted.

and the 'Heavy Vehicle Process Manager' replied with
The seat belt requirements do not apply to passenger vehicles over 3.5 tonnes GVW registered prior to 1 October 2001 other than coaches, where the relevant date is 1 October 1988. So no requirement for your RMF.

So i'm happy with this and thank you all the also helped

Regards

My bus number (if any): RMF2771 (also known as RCN701)

I have two RMs that I operate for hire and reward (PF1097131). They do not not have seatbelts.

The law is clear, as given above. However passengers often expect seatbelts. I have lost three jobs in the last two years because the organisation had a policy of only using vehicles with seatbelts. A school outing and two school proms.

Also, at weddings, I have had several guests bringing car seats, asking where they can fix them for their children.

My bus number (if any): RMs 238, 471. 2213 & GS 17

You can fit some child car seats to a standard RM frame but it has to be on the provision of child restraint for convenience and not safety as per the BS or EU regulation on the product.

Seat belts are a mandatory requirement to be fitted to all post 1965 cars. But mandatory requirement to wear them is I think, 1970 on.

That's when strengthening of seat belt mounts was a factory requirement following the finding of weaknesses caused by retrofitting some cars and poor strength on 1963 onwards factory mounting points.

The RM like most fare stage buses were not built with any stress load points for seat belts. It was also not designed for any use other than as a bus.

Normal practice is to promote common sense useage by passengers. Signs and stickers to remind people to hold on. stay seated while the vehicle is moving and so on.

A couple of "seat belt" tales from the panic days of 1994 to fit seatbelts to everything following the M40 minibus crash:

When I was based in Mitcham, a local operator of some disrepute got an immediate PG9 (prohibition) for running his AEC Reliance on a school run. It had failed its class 6 earlier that day on a number of items. When the ministry man issued the PG9, the headmistress said it was alright as the coach had seatbelts...

An operator in the Watford area was reported to have fitted seatbelts in his coach attached to the seat frames with cable ties!!! Someone I know has the pictures of them...

The furore after the M40 crash failed, and has still failed to address the problem and cause of the crash, that of non-psv drivers driving such vehicles, and not obeying drivers hours rules. We are still the only country in Europe that allows non-psv drivers to drive buses with no special licence entitlement or training.

Sorry, not knocking the OP at all, that's just my view on things. Drive safe!