Can anyone recall roughly when the last Routemasters in pre-showbus days carried gold transfers as part of standard livery - or even which were the last few such buses? The `white band/roundel` livery came in during 1974 so logically it would have taken three years or so for early 1974 overhauls and/or inter-overhaul repaints to be outshopped in the new scheme. My guess is that the last Routemasters to have gold transfers were probably those long term delicenced examples in the late 1970`s which maybe lasted parked up in garages around the fleet for a year or more after the last in every day service.

Here`s RM 1128 on August 23rd 1978 not in Stockwell as the code suggests but in Bexleyheath where it appears to have been for some time judging by the dirt on it. One of many cannibalized RMs resulting from the dire spare parts shortage of the mid 1970`s and eventually rebuilt. Wonder why it was towed to one of the few garages that never operated Routemasters? Was it to prevent it becoming any worse if there was no temptation there to keep taking bits off it?

By gold transfers do you means the non underlined London Transport and gold stock numbers?
I believe the white roundel(s) and white stock numbers were not applied at the same time. The white band and white stock numbers were certainly not applied at the same time, the production RMs and RMLs from 2210 and new XAs had gold transfers and white bands!

Edit RM 1128 could have been one of the last to have gold transfers, it last ran out of New Cross, not SW, NX didn't get round to changing the garage code, it was delicensed at NX 1/5/75 (it's not recorded as transferred to BX although I suspect you are right about why RMs were sent to BX) and returned to service at Camberwell(Q) 21/8/79 it didn't get a paint change until overhaul 1/4/83.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585, M 961, M 271 and several RTs

No RMs or RMLs had white bands from new.
The originals were Chiswick Cream and later ones from I think 2210 had flake grey which then became the norm for RT RF and RM/L fleets

The white band with gold non underlined fleetname and numbers appeared in the 1970s.
New 1971/72 DMS had off white on the sides but the line drawn roundel and gold fleet numbers

The last one I saw was an RML on the 37 in London Road, Isleworth in 1980 and SW bus I think.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585, M 961, M 271 and several RTs

If I`ve got this correct it would go like this in order ....

1. Chiswick Cream band with gold stock numbers and fleet name underlined. I don`t think cream ever went with non-underlined fleet name.

2. Flake grey band with gold stock numbers and fleet name initially the underlined style and then non-underlined. Flake Grey was still being used in the summer of 1972 as I have a picture of newly overhauled RM 7 at PB like this with gold non-underlined fleet name.

3. White band with gold stock numbers and non-underlined fleet name. Concurrent with this were around 100 RM`s with white band, gold stock numbers and open white roundel.

4. Finally around mid 1974 came the white band, white stock numbers and white `filled ` roundel.

Which means that for a time around the mid 1970`s examples of 2, 3 and 4 above could be seen. Which is what I recall when at AR at that time.

Going back to RM 1128 and the overhaul info that Brian supplied, I reckon this was the last RM in service with any type of gold transfers applied as standard livery in the days before `retro fitting` of such on Show Buses. It did make it into the 1980`s with the livery as shown in my picture (above) as I have more pictures of it taken in 1980 and again on 29/10/81. On the latter date it still carries that same livery but what makes my shots of it then even more interesting is what`s happening to the bus as I came across it quite by chance. Opposite Peckham Garage it must have had a mechanical failure and required removal into the garage. Rather than wait for a tow truck, the Running Shift used MD 91 to tow it!

I liked the comment Jack made about the RML on the 37`s with gold non-underlined fleet names in 1980. If I recall correctly it was either 2538 or 2539. Both were on the 37`s, one from SW and the other from NX. I don`t remember exactly which but it was without doubt the scruffiest Routemaster I ever saw in service. I used to see it often along the Upper Richmond Road if I was on the 33`s. It was unbelievable. Enfield`s RM`s were pretty bad in the bald roof department because of the trees at the northern end of the 279`s but this one on the 37`s was in dire need of a repaint and overhaul requiring the changing of almost every panel! Being proud of our fleet at Mortlake, Neil T and I were at real despair at what we saw on the 37`s.

Quite a few RT`s lasted long enough to get white bands but always with gold stock numbers and fleet names though I have a nagging thought that I`ve got a picture of one with white stock numbers. Anybody remember this?

I think you have it right Neil
RML 2538 was out of NX and would have been used on the 37, but before you castigate NX staff, just remember that under the garage manning scheme Mortlake didn't have enough buses to support one bodymaker or painter, but as you could not have less than 1, Mortlake's bodymaker and painter had loads of spare time, whereas NX had 5 times as many buses, not all RMs, and 3 or 4 bodymakers who were fully occupied with accident damage, maintenance and rota work. Mortlake like Brixton also had a "strong" Foreman!

New Cross and Cricklewood buses were a nightmare to have at Aldenham; all were far heavier for panels and under panel bodges than any other garages.

There was an RT about with white stock numbers, (also RFs) I think the RT was a training bus and pictured at Chiswick, but like you I have seen it but cannot remember where.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585, M 961, M 271 and several RTs

I think Neil, that's about right.

The non underlined gold fleetname probably came about as a consequence of the split between Central andCountry bus operations becoming LTE and LCBS.
Certainly the first LCBS livery used London Country in a similar font but with no underline with all characters the same point size.

But while Routemasters came out from repaints with the non underlined fleetname with flake grey band and later the white band, it's strange how RT and RF types continued be outshopped with the underlined fleetname and even flake grey for some years after off white had become the norm for RM types

Another oddity was that whilst new J reg DMS were delivered with the white relief strips, gold numbers and the open type white roundel, J reg SMS were still delivered with flake grey relief and the red non underlined fleetname.

The RMs which had the open type roundel (on the rear o/s stair panel had gold numbers and a flake grey band. I don't recall seeing one with a white band although it would have been a logical style update.

The RTs that were returned to LT by London Country were sometimes easily identified as several had non underlined fleetnames. OLD 700 at K and NB was one such as was MXX 37. Always was easier to id RTs by their reg. numbers.

I can't recall seeing a service RT with a white band in west London but do remember seeing a training RT with a PR code which had white underlined fleetnames. Never saw an RT in the white roundel livery.

RFs were different the last lot at K had a mix of solid white roundels and either flake grey or white relief mouldings and some retained gold numbers and some had white.
I think in my time there I can only recall six RFs that were in the full correct solid roundel livery others being a mix of styles.

I quite take your point, Brian, regarding the manning levels at Mortlake. It was a very fortunate situation to have more time available to spend on a small fleet as opposed to never enough time on a larger fleet. We were also lucky to have a foreman who cared about the job and many older time served craftsmen too for whom doing a job well was instinctive. We could easily have had `couldn`t be bothered` staff with plenty of available time but no motivation to look after a small fleet that then had the sort of presentation which would have made any attempts by Neil T and I to enhance it further entirely futile. Incidentally, our luck was even greater as regards Coachmakers as a minimum of two had to be provided in a garage as too many jobs required two pairs of hands. Don`t think you`ll find any instance of just one coachmaker allocated to a garage.

Jack, I was only half right regarding open roundels. They did begin on Flake Grey band buses but either continued or survived with white bands too. If you`ve got the 9 road video to hand have a look near the start and you`ll see one in Mortlake Garage. White band RT`s were less common but one of the four RT`s allocated to AF in 1976 had one - 4363. As a conductor I transfered from Mortlake to Putney so that I could work on RT`s and was well known for swapping running plates if the driver was agreeable to get an RT on my duty! I`ve got a picture of me standing by the front of RT 4363 in the garage entrance ready to set out with it on the 74`s in April 1977. Although intended for the 30`s they were freely mixed into the 14`s and 74`s allocation too - but never the 37`s as it was deemed too busy for lower capacity buses. But there`s always an exception. I don`t think it ever became well known but I managed just once to get one on the 37`s and did a Putney to Hounslow to Brixton and back to Putney stint with RT 4631 one evening rush hour with a bus or two missing in front of us. What an experience! Made that recess under the stairs on a Routemaster look like the best invention ever!

Jack
The reason for mixed transfers on RTs and RFs was where the repaints were done. Quite a few RTs had the non underlined London Transport, these being done at Aldenham, other repaints were done at garages after re-certs and these used the old stocks of the underlined fleet names.

The reason or the mix of RF liveries was a lot of RFs were overhauled or repainted and received grey window surrounds and underlined fleetname, RFs 502 and 538 plus others acquired non underlined ones. Then there was also the very late "overhaul" of 25 RFs in 1977, these acquired flake grey window surrounds and the white solid roundel. RF 534 at least was one RF that had white stock numbers.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585, M 961, M 271 and several RTs

Yes Guessed a lot of recerts were done by garages.

Great story Neil about the RTs.
A few were drafted back to NB to cover for NBA RMs and the crews queued up for them but they were intended for rush hour cover.

Some years later RMs were drafted from all over to cover for Ms that went to HW and the 65 got a second extension before the end of conductors. We even got freshly overhauled RM1804 after the last RM should have officially been replaced!

Yes I remember standing in the peeing rain at East Putney for a 37 expecting to get on with the other 10 people, being an RML could take 77 passengers and along comes an RT that didn't even stop......:-)O

By the way, I saw on Flickr a report that RM 1128 received a "garage repaint" at Q before entering service but no idea if that is correct or why it was necessary.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585, M 961, M 271 and several RTs

I`m hoping, Brian, that you can`t recall the date you were left at the bus stop by an RT on the 37`s that didn`t stop as if my given instance of one on that route was indeed the only known occasion then you`ll know for sure who gave the three bells to ring it past the stop!!!!!
I do recall we were hammered from hoards of passengers who had been waiting a long time and our trip to Peckham was curtailed at Brixton because we were running so late. Typical day on the 37`s really.......
Funny how, when compared to a Routemaster, an RT seemed so unsuitable for full loads on busy routes with so little room for the conductor to stand out of the way on the platform and yet they were the mainstay of many busy routes for so long. RM`s replacing RT`s must have seemed like luxury to many staff.

There was one maniac driver at Putney who drove far too fast most of the time and on one occasion his dislike of having an RT (which I hadn`t rigged) was obvious by the way he drove as hard as possible to Hackney Wick and back to Roehampton trying to keep to time. The final bit back to the garage to finish had another bus a minute or so in front of us. With nobody on board or waiting at any of the stops, I couldn`t believe the speed we did down Dover House Road non stop from top to bottom. Holding on tightly I made my way to the front to look at the speedo. 40mph we hit on the long downhill straight passing parked cars and islands with inches to spare. Bumps hit resulted in the dust being shaken out of the grooves between the floor slats! Having paid in, I wandered into the garage and the RT I`d just been on (3559) had just gone through the wash and the wheels were steaming!

Going back to RM 1128, as I mentioned earlier, I have pictures of it back in service in 1980 and 1981 with the gold stock numbers and gold non underlined fleetname. Logically if it got a garage repaint before returning to service it should have gained white transfers which had been the standard for many years at that point. So surely this was the last Routemaster to carry gold transfers by some considerable margin.