Hello all,
In a months time my RM is due for an MOT. However having been built in Nov 59 and entered service in Feb 1960 in my eyes is exempt from an MOT. Has anyone else dealt with the DVLA yet to register for exemption. Is this what i need to do? I have looked at the website for the DVLA but not totally clear. I am still going to have the RM checked by a tester, as like all of us i want to know she is safe for the road when carrying friends and love ones. Thanks for the useful advice in advance..
Regards Mark

My bus number (if any): RM158

You simply fill in the MoT exemption form you find in your local post office, the one for tractors/fire engines/showmans and the like. simples.

Mark,
I would just continue getting it tested as a check over will cost almost the same but won't have a bit of official paper saying it is safe for the public roads.

If something does happen, at least you have a degree of peace of mind knowing that you were diligent enough to have the vehicle tested and proves due care.

There are shock waves on the horizon over an inquest currently going on with a fatal coach crash which has found a failed tyre to be nearly 20 years old.

It's likely that new rules may come in to forbid tyres over 3-6 years being used on any vehicle using public roads.
How this is going to be checked without MOTs on old vehicles is anyones guess.

I notice that form V112G has been amended greatly reducing the catogories that qualify although the old V112G can still be found on the government website.

I cannot find any reference to this other than the consultation back in 2010? which seemed to have no results or plan published and certainly nothing about implementation which is rather worrying.

Re tyres and future age constraints, despite safety concerns and implications this will not get very far in any of the consultations and will fall down on the impact assessments due to the over riding costs and how is it going to be enforced anyway.

The offical bit of paper (MOT certificate) is really only good on the day it was issued and I'm sure that the small print makes that clear.

Back to the original point with Marks bus, if the dofr on the V5C is post 01/01/60 then it will need to get the date of manufacture put in to overide the dofr, how you do this I don@t know but I would guess something on the lines that everybody that had a dofr 1973 bus which was built in 1972 had to do with getting copies of build sheets or similar. you know if the computer has you bus down as being MOT exempt is if you can tax it online when the last MOT had expired.

Mark

My bus number (if any): RM1414 sort of

The vehicle details for VLT 158 are:
Date of Liability 01 08 2013
Date of First Registration 01 02 1960
Year of Manufacture 1960
Cylinder Capacity (cc) 9800cc
CO2 Emissions Not Available
Fuel Type HEAVY OIL
Export Marker N
Vehicle Status Licence Due to Expire
Vehicle Colour RED
Vehicle Type Approval Not Available

Full MOT until you can get a certified change then...
Interesting that your log book has the bus as an 'AEC Routemaster' still

Mark

My bus number (if any): RM1414 sort of

Thank you all for your comments and suggestions, road tax arived in the post during the week. I'm off work for a few days so will see how i get on..
Regards Mark

My bus number (if any): RM158

It's down to you to prove it was BUILT pre-1960!

Good luck with that, the owners of RM 8 have not been able to prove pre-1960 manufacture as DOFRfor RM 8 was 3/61, this is despite the bus being exhibited at the Commercial Motor Show in 1958for which there is pictorial evidence!!

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585, (M 961, M 271 - both sold) and several RTs

Depends on how much you value your time whether the effort and hassle of proving a manufacturing date is worth £80.65/£139

What date will you be attempting to prove? A&B frames leaving AEC works? Body completed and leaving Park Royal for paintshop? Arrival at LT Aldenham?

It seems a complete waste of time for something that ultimately isn't in your best interests anyway.

At the end of the day you will still be able to display a print out of Ian Smith's vehicle history on the rally field for the benefit of the hairy gentlemen with notebooks.

In other motoring circles it seems the date of manufacture is being taken by the DVLA as Date of First Registration, which is not what the legislation says.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585, (M 961, M 271 - both sold) and several RTs

According to Ian's Bus Stop, the current RM158/VLT158 carries body B423. So most of this bus was actually RM423 when new. Was this built before 1960? There may be more extreme versions of this situation where a much later body carries an early bonnet number. It seems to me a little cheeky to debate the test rules when the Routemaster saga is so unusual.

Phil.

RM158 was originally classified as 5/RM5/5 and was of a batch built in late 1959 and into Jan 1960.
It was licensed for service in February 1960.
However it was part of an order for 850 RMs placed and confirmed in 1956 and due for delivery in 1958.
The registrations were reserved in 1957 and thus RM158 and even RM 423 date from 1958.
RM422 was displayed at Earl's Court from 23rd September 1960
RM423 - 429 entered service in November 1960 at HL so were constructed for sure in 1960
RM 865 was built in July 1961 and RM1000 was completed at Park Royal on the 16th October 1961
which is when the first RML was built.

So it is probable that as most RMs seemed to have been built 2-3 months before entering service,
The original 158 would be approx November/ December 1959

But effectively RM's 5 -855 were bought and paid for before 1960.

I suspect Ken Blacker has the exact dates if anyone does!!

All very well, but the rule is manufactured before 1/1/60, so when it was delivered, paid for, ordered is irrelevant. Phil is right with RMs it's complicated and on date body built RM 158 has no chance, but there is an RM, I think 1919 that has a 1959 built body.

It's far simpler here, historic vehicles are 30 years old using date of first registration. Date of manufacture even for cars makes it unnecessarily complicated, with cars some sat in Fords/BL/Vauxhall's yards for months.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585, (M 961, M 271 - both sold) and several RTs

That was I was trying to highlight. It is so foggy with this type of vehicle that not even what's recorded on paper is fully verifiable.


The cut off date for 1960 is utterly bonkers, I don't know what those who advised were thinking.
We have heritage class tax cutting off at 1973 and MOT cutting off at 1960.

Common sense and simplicity would have had all at the same date.

But why 1960? The obvious date would be 1965 when safety legislation was introduced for most motor vehicles.
Seat belts were compulsory to be fitted and anchorages had to meet a new BS standard and several other safety features some of which do rely on structural integrity of the vehicle became mandatory. The next leap was 1972/73.

At the end of the day, the vehicle is still exempt from Tax and I would go with Jacks suggestion to just test it every year anyway as that bit of paper does mean something to insurers and better safe than sorry if they do pick up a defect.

AFIR the consultation document referred to 1st registered

Application form V112 says manufactured or registered before 1/1/60

V112G for heavy vehicles says first used before 1/1/60

1960 was chosen because there has been a long standing exemption from MOT for pre 1960 HGV used unladen.

Virtually impossible to verify now, but 30 years ago this HGV concession was pre 1961.

This HGV concession had moved date previously since my 1973 "Lowe's" lists the exemption being for vehicles first registered before January 1st 1940 and for trailers manufactured before that date.

I have to agree with Roy and Mark here.
It's a right mess which could have been made far more simple and thus far less costly to administer.

As Mark says, certainly for cars, 1965 is a benchmark year where a lot of safety legislation was introduced and was testable.

Heritage class is pre 73 and was intended to roll at 25 years. That ought to be reinstated or at least reviewed every five years.

I know that there were some consultations with classic vehicle groups but they really shot themselves in the foot.

To my mind, a vehicle being used on the road must be tested. Any number of defects can exist even on a pristine vehicle of awesome standards.

It's not true that the MoT certificate is not worth the paper it's printed on. Our older vehicles are all tested at mileage intervals but the official test does satisfy the insurers and the health and safety people.

We often allow a few veteran vehicles to use our facilities, rolling road etc and almost all have had to make braking adjustments that just could not be made or measured with their own facilities.

Several items and areas are far from easy to test at home or in a non-garage environment.

I can`t imagine why any responsible owner wouldn`t want to have their heritage vehicle inspected once a year and to be able to produce the bit of paper that confirms that their bus met a certain standard on a certain date. Yes, we all know that a potentially serious defect could begin to appear within weeks of an MOT certificate being issued be it a preserved or an in service bus and whilst the latter should be picked up on the next rota inspection, how long is the preserved bus going to trundle along with the owner unaware? Bad enough if the answer is several months, worse still if it`s never - until it all goes very wrong. Anyone who is voluntarily spending their money on a `not needed` annual inspection is pro-actively maintaining the good repute of the preservation movement and that has to be a good thing.

And here`s another point. When it comes to selling a vehicle what`s one of the first things that a potenrtial buyer expects to see? A service history. Fast forward ten years. Two early RM`s come up for sale. Not much to choose between them condition wise but one has MOT certificates going back years and the other one hasn`t. Which one is going to be the more attractive buy? How about an unexpected need to up the standard of a Class 5 bus to a Class 6 to allow it to earn its keep. I would have thought that long term proof of due diligence in always maintaining a yearly MOT would be an asset.

Just to point out that I did not say "the MoT certificate is not worth the paper it's printed on"
The MOT certificate is proof that on the day of the test (approved independant inspection by a person trained and qualified to undertake such an inspection) it meets or exceeds the minimum standards as required by law.

One big bus company that a friend works for on the engineering side have set their own minimum standards which are higher than that required by the PSV class 6 test for the 3 weekly inspections.

Mark

My bus number (if any): RM1414 sort of

Indeed many operators have far stricter standards than laid down in "the regulations".

The 1960 date is that set and accepted by the EU for test exemption of heritage vehicles. It is down to each state how or whether it imposes that date. UKplc has decided to accept this date for test exemption, as has Holland and a few other countries. I know Germany hasn't as I often have to deal with the DEKRA/TuV people over there regarding queries on RMs and RTs.

Just a update for you in regards the debate of either MOT or not to MOT my bus. There has been some useful comments on here that i have taken on board (pardon the joke!) The timescale was an issue for this year and the blank look i got from counter staff in the main post office near me for the form was priceless. They have run out apparently. Must be quite a demand in East London i guess for exemption of vehicles then?? I will certainly be looking further into it over the coming year. I take safety as a very important factor and i'm sure comments made were not directed at me, but as a general view. As originally said in my opening question to this tread i want to know is safe for my friends and love ones to travel on and is serviced once a year and checked over regularly by myself and a trained RM engineer. She was in fact taken for a class 5 this week and passed. Over the coming months a planned re silvering of the underneath and replacement of oval front drums+shoes will take place..
Regards Mark

My bus number (if any): RM158

I won't get involved in the great debate here, but I have just looked in the records and RM158 was delivered in 11/59.

So therefore there is no doubt that it was built in 1959 ............

My bus number (if any): RM1368