This is what we find behind to top back seat of our RCL. ( the Love seat?)

There are neon lights fitted on the top deck, but none work.

Looks in bad shape. Question is, can this be bypassed and power, (24 volts), applied directly to the strip lights. I'm told these few coaches they made had these neon lights, true?

Also I discovered that all the heritage busses running in London have had their classic round bulbs replaced with strip lights. any chance anyone has a picture of the original round light fittings? Sadly the bottom deck has no original lights, and I'd like to see how viable it would be to install the traditional round lights.

As some will know, we decided to refurbish the bus for charity work, in the style of a 50's Diner, as when we got it, most of the seats were gone, and quite a few original features has been destroyed, so we are not too worried if the round lights would not fit the model. We have restored the top front seat section with all the original bits, seats, cork floor and sung yellow paint, then we were told these coaches were white inside, Oh well, looks good anyway.

In any case, any advice on the lighting setup pictured above, and any pics of the old fitting, will be gratefully received.

My bus number (if any): RCL2259

Hi Robert

I don`t have a close up detailed picture of an original light fitting but if it`s just a general view of the positioning and size of them, maybe this will help.

All of the `Green Line` Routemaster, RMC`s and RCL`s had fluorescent lights on both decks from new hence the set up behind the lovers seat.
Those who have restored a 1990`s refurbished RML to `original` condition have been able to find the original tungsten bulb fittings beneath the newer style lighting unit that was just fitted over the old type. But as RCL`s never had tungsten bulbs you don`t have that facility.
Many of the features that Green Line RCL`s had when new were removed when bought back in 1980 by LT from London Country (to whom the RCL`s passed in 1970) for conversion to ordinary buses. It`s true that RCLs when new had white ceilings. They also had `flat` rather than `slatted `treadmaster floors. But does this matter? Your pictures show a pretty smart bus interior on both decks which is functional for your needs. You`re probably never going to find and re-fit all of the long gone original features so getting into working order what you already have is almost certainly the best way forward.

Your bus has fluorescent lights not neon lights. It is not possible to work fluorescent lights directly from 24 v DC as they are designed to run on mains voltage. You'll have to see if you have 24 v going to the "starter" units when you turn the light switches on. They're labelled + and - on the starter boxes.

I have the wiring diagrams for the RMC which is very similar, but the sheets are the size of a dining table and there's 8 of them, so please don't ask for a copy! I have some of the fluo tube covers if that's any help. They also fitted modernised Green Line RFs and a host of non-London buses. For catering use "the authorities" won't allow tungsten bulbs so you'll need to get the tubes working.

If the starter units don't work Airlec at Rye stock them or modern replacements.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

At the risk of sounding odd, do you know where the switch for the upper deck lights is located. There is a switch in the conductors storage space, on the upper part of the top opening. New lights have been installed which appear to be wired directly as they do not go off when the power switch is turned off, ie, they work all the time when switched on.

The pictures of the bus interior are very helpful.

When you say, "For catering use "the authorities" won't allow tungsten bulbs" can you explain why please. Should mention that the bus is not actually acting as a diner, it is just meant to look like one. It is all about encouraging volunteers. We have a Flux capacitor you may have spotted, but getting to 88mph is another thing.

Question is, would having a diner style, while not serving food, prevent the use of tungsten bulbs.

My bus number (if any): RCL2259

Hi Robert,

Jack Norie wrote a detailed piece about Fluorescent lighting in ex-LT GL Coaches and why tungsten cannot be used in a catering vehicle. It is on the other thread about the bell switch. Did you miss it?

I think you'll find that Neil, Roy and Jack have pretty much answered and explained everything.

But the issue with lighting in a catering vehicle. Bare bulbs are not allowed if they can be reached by a customer.

There is a risk they could strike one or burn themselves on it and it is a long standing public health and safety and liability issue.

It does not apply to a bus in it's intended use as a PSV.

It is also a hygiene issue as all surfaces must be wipe clean in a confined space used for consumption of food and beverages.

I'm sure who ever designed the conversion of your RCL would have been aware of the regulations and complied accordingly. And it does look rather good.

These are pan european rules and have been made more stringent in recent years.

Some years ago now was I was party to a conversion of an RMF to a mobile fish and chip restaurant.

It had to be heavily modified to allow venting of the fryers and eliminate fire risks etc.

The existing lighting had to meet two criteria. Emergency lighting and mains AC.

It was done at great expense and really well so as to barely notice. Some cove panels were replaced with curved perspex diffusers with the tube mounted behind and they were hinged. By day they looked like the normal ceiling coves. The original fluorescent lighting remained but as the emergency lighting.

As well as a firewall being fitted to the upper deck flooring. The vehicle still looked really authentic but it was refused an operating licence in the UK and when it eventually was, the insurance was ridiculous.

It was instead exported and to this day I believe it's still a very successful operation

The RCL when new was different in decor to the normal RM/RML buses. They had a grey based seat moquette and a few other colour/trim variations. Personally I thought they looked a bit drab inside and lacked the warmth of the Bus Routemasters. But the seats were really comfortable.

It is a little bit of a side issue as it is only 24V not 240v but the same rules apply.

Not about the lights but....the interior looks good and as the original interior was not present its a fair compromise. My concern is the lower deck floor...it looks excellent and very appropriate but how do you check the gearbox oil level?

My bus number (if any): rm531

Steve, if you look at the interior shot on the other thread I think there looks like an inspection hatch in the floor about where the gearbox is ?

My bus number (if any): RML2747

Ah yes! Couldn't see that in the other pic!

My bus number (if any): rm531

I`ve had a thought about the top deck lights.
Logically the light switches were together as you describe - above where the conductor would stand. One switch for the lower deck, one switch for the upper deck. The lights could be left on without having the engine running.
But your bus is one of the London Coaches conversions to a removable top. There has to be the possibility that the aforementioned arrangements were considerably changed when this work was done.
I`ll ask someone who also has one of these........

Actually we are just a charity group of volunteers and we designed the refit with your help here and help from Martin at LondonBus4Hire. You have no idea how happy it makes me that you guys like it. You are right about the hatch for the gearbox. It is there. The coke cooler is bolted down with 4 long bolts, and might need to be removed to access the flywheel, (if I have the term right). the hatch on the floor just behind the driver and left bottom window. From what I have learned, this hatch is not often needed open, but if it was, there might be an extra 4 bolts to undo. These are actually quite accessible and just a matter of extra time.

the Hastings bus service provided us with floor channels that we bolted to the original seat bolt holds. They allow for special t type bolts to slot in and secure the seats at any position you like. We needed that as the table placement made it so the seats did not always end up in the same place. I was on a bus in Hastings when I spotted all their busses have these channels to secure their seats. You might not have noticed that the top level tables are on a telescopic stand which allows them to be lowered. Add a custom made cushion and you have a 7 foot bed. Look carefully and you can see the stand. They are designed for yachts and very strong.

My bus number (if any): RCL2259

You can see the lights in the picture. A concern which has just come up. Under a small panel. there are wires and a plastic pin type plug, the male end, but nothing there for it to plug in to. The wires go to the interior lights on the drivers side. also I can't distinctly see wires from the love seat area that might match this plug. I actually think these current lights, (no pun intended), look good with the tables and seats, but I am guessing they will not be easy to fix. I have no idea here. Any advice on how to test and what to look out for would be great. The box is pictured earlier in this thread, for any who just tuned in.

My bus number (if any): RCL2259

Loving the picture, bus is looking great.

having noticed the Wurlitzer am i right in thinking that is you, that has posted about the power supply generator/batteries for a routemaster on the FMCA Forum?

If so i might be able to help

My bus number (if any): RMF 2771

Yes that is us. That is the last Juke Box Wurlitzer made by the way, and we have conformation of that in writing. What a thing eh. Its called a Princess and fits perfectly at at a meter high

Needs 340 Watts coke machine needs 230Watts. Silent is best. Thinking ahead, need about 1 to 1.5 Kilowatts. Great to get some advice on what is best.

My bus number (if any): RCL2259

just sent you a email about this, though just re-reading your comment you might want to look at the next genarator model up on the same site to the one i recommended

My bus number (if any): RMF 2771

Hi,

Yes Neil has spoken to me and I will have a look at our bus tomorrow and send any helpful pictures.

Cheers

Andy

Hello Robert

Love the Wurlitzer

The lighting units are called inverters. They take the 24V DC in and produce 240V AC plus provide the additional striking voltage to get the tube to initially illuminate. If you can get a close up photo of them or a part number from the label I can identify and possibly supply them from stock. They look newer than the type used on Routemasters as they are plug in and look similar to those used on Metrobuses. Those I have seen on Routemasters tend to be screw connections (I have a few of them in stock as well). Are all of the lights not working or just some. Lighting inverters are not cheap and you do not want to buy them unless needed

It is possible these inverters were were fitted when the lighting was altered to suit your roof modification.

Cannot answer the switch question without taking a look. Where in the country are you?

Regarding a mains supply, Any mains wiring must comply with the latest IEE regulations (BS7671) with vehicles being considered a special location with tighter regulations for installation and regular inspection and testing, similar to caravans. I have seen mains on buses wired in household twin and earth. It must be flexible cable. As well as a generator you could have an inlet plug similar to that used on caravans.

The vehicles we have converted have usually had inverters on slave batteries with a split charging system to protect the bus batteries and a generator (10KVA on the last one we did) as well as a mains input point so that all scenarios are catered for. If you only need 1 to 1.5KVA then a 1000 or 1500W inverter may do the job. You will need to use additional batteries as stated above.

While this is not relevant to your bus, for food hygiene regulations the requirement is only where food is being prepared that lamps must be "food safe" so even if you did use the bus as a place to sit and eat, unless the food is prepared there it should not affect you (and for a comparison check your local cafe lighting. Food safe in the kitchen but not the seating area). Food safe fluorescent tubes are covered in a protective film (a coloured band at the end of the tube indicates they have a protective cover). LED tubes are plastic and do not need any additional covering. Again I can supply these from stock. For completeness you should also only use food safe cable ties in food production areas (they have metal flakes for metal detection and are brightly coloured). It is the same reason that kitchen first aid kits have to have blue plasters (also containing small metal flakes).

Sorry gents. A combination of nearly all my work activities in one post :)

My bus number (if any): RML2276 M1001 T806

Food safe bulbs to prevent the ingress of broken glass into food, hence tungsten bulbs are banned as they could break into food, simples! Should have made that clearer..

My bus number (if any): RML2532

You were clear and I agree Roy, but only in a food prep area. There isn't a requirement for a dining area.

My bus number (if any): RML2276 M1001 T806

Quite annoyed that I types a lengthy reply yesterday and the system lost it, grrrrrrrrr.

The upper deck buzzer push wires go to a terminal block under the rear upper deck seat, wires B is 16/012 and is brown,and B3 which is 16/012 and is blue. Thee then go via the lower saloon buzzer push forwards to the n/s cab header panel. Wire B goes through there to the buzzer panel in the cab.

The fluorescent lights are individually fed from the ballast units under the back seat with 4 wires per tube, so a total of about 34 wires for the tubes!

roy was right about the different protocol for the buzzers in the RMC and RCLs so the driver would know the conductor was not on the platform and would have to close the doors.

Wiring details taken from the RMC wiring diagram CR310W which runs to some 16 big pages, hence my reluctance to copy it! They are all the size of a kitchen table.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Hi Robert,

Right the problem I believe is that the plugs are not plugged in! You access theses plugs by removing the demountable parts of the top deck - GREAT!

If you can email me I can send you a couple of pics which might help..

cheers

Andy

They used to be 2 big NATO connectors or 36 way connectors, oblong type.

My bus number (if any): RML2532