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Batteries

I have had 2 12 Volt batteries fail within the space of 3 months. Both batteries were purchased in April 2012 and therefore under 2 years old. I returned the second failed battery today and the supplier (Shield Batteries) replaced it under warranty but very reluctantly. I was advised that Routemasters were designed to take 4 X 6 volt batteries and that 12 volt batteries were unsuitable. When I advised that the previous 12 volt batteries had lasted well over 10 years he didn't comment! He said that although he'd replace it this time, if it failed again I wouldn't be covered.

I wondered whether anyone has had problems with using 12 volt batteries or whether I was just unlucky!

My bus number (if any): RM 1699 Eastbourne Regent III (AHC442) Regent V (KHC369)

Re: Batteries

I have Yuasa 627 cargo batteries in all my buses. They came highly recommended by the firm who do my maintenance who have them fitted in most of the RMs they look after. I hear they are good about replacing them under warranty.

My bus number (if any): RMs 238, 471. 2213 & GS17

Re: Batteries

Shield batteries may not be the best in the world. I use 4 x 6 volt batteries in mine, type 721 from a company in Bishops Stortford.

RMs were originally designed to take 3 x 8 volt batteries!

You may find the lack of use doesn't do batteries much good. Buses are designed to be used every day so the original spec batts need to be used. I suggest you ask a reputable battery supplier for batteries that are designed to stand around for ages.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Batteries

The battery crates on RTs and RMs were designed to take 4 x 6v batteries although some of the original DC ones might have had a different arrangement, they were all standardised at first overhaul.

6 volt batteries were of less temptation to thieves, there was also a maintenance and cost perspective as 6 volts could be tested and replaced individually if necessary and the Battery Shop at Chiswick Works ( yes LT did their own batteries) was set up to do these batteries for RTs and continued to do so for RMs etc.

We use 12 volt batteries in pairs as they are easier to buy, and they are under 2 year warranty, They are disconnected after use and trickle charged prior to use if a long period between use. If they fail in the warranty period they are changed without question. Not using a vehicle regularly hardly breeches the terms of a decent warranty, although a lot of them are worded such that most use is outside the prescribed use of a battery!
If the seller moans about changing stuff under warranty, go elsewhere! Oh and don't use Halfords!

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: Batteries

Almost all Halfords batteries are now actually supplied by Yuasa. Just branded differently.
Most Halfords batteries now come with a 3 year no quibble warranty and nearly all their range are now calcium batteries which have a much longer non use charge.

However you would struggle to find the correct cold cranking amperage on any 6 or 12 volt car or light van battery.

4 six volt batteries all have to have matching amperage otherwise the return charge will be imbalanced to each capacity.

What Steven needs to know is why the batteries have failed so soon. Are they getting cooked by overcharge? or a heavy drain and constant load.

It could be a fault on the bus causing the battery failure.

For long storage, it's well worth adding 3 bat-aid tablets to each cell. This stops the deposits on the plates and keeps the acid in good condition.

David Colin is the man to ask.

Re: Batteries

Not so sure I am Mark. My record of failed batteries is appalling. In my case it is lack of use coupled with starting currents to shunt the bus for access but no real run time for charging. Being parked towards the front of a sixty strong fleet of preserved buses seventeen miles away means she has to be shunted regularly by others and I cannot remove the batteries or keep them charged. Maximum of three years for my 2 x 12V batteries.

Brian. RM's, Metros, Titans all had 3 x 8V batteries from Chiswick works. They were the visible 4 x 2V cell type. They were converted to 4 x 6V during the late 1980's as Chiswick battery shop was closing. We initially converted them upon failure but I think towards the end it was just get them converted. Probably because it was bonus work.

Steven. What is your bus storage like. Long periods of non use or worse still regular shunting without real use? If you can park the bus with no movement then disconnection and trickle charge will help. Do you have an isolator?
Interesting the battery man said the bus was designed for 4 x 6V. It wasn't and it is completely irrelevant if the 12V amp hour and cranking current ratings are similar. 4 x 6V 160Ah or 2 x 12V 160Ah is still 24V 160Ah.

My bus number (if any): RML2276 M1001 T806

Re: Batteries

David, to answer your question, I use my vehicles on a fairly regular basis throughout the rally season from April until the end of October. I then work on the vehicles during the autumn/winter and take them out very occasionally and have to admit that I don't always keep the batteries charged up. However, its worth bearing in mind that the batteries I had on the Regent V before I replaced then with the Shield batteries 2 years ago had been on the vehicle since I acquired in in 2003 so were at least 11 years old. They were Varta type 655 batteries and clearly lasted a long time under far from ideal conditions. Incidentally I replaced the batteries on RM1699 in 2011 and they were at least 13 years old. The replacement batteries were 2 X 12V Shield batteries and they haven't failed yet!!!

My bus number (if any): RM 1699 Eastbourne Regent III (AHC442) Regent V (KHC369)

Re: Batteries

The MBAs also had 3 8 volt batteries from new.

I have Shield batteries on 2532 and have to keep them trickle-charged. even with the isolator off there seems to be a drain, maybe the tacho clock but there's also a red LED aglow on a box of bits in the cab. I'll take it out one day, whatever it is.

Are your batteries flat or do you have a dodgy battery lead like I have? This has been discussed on another thread on here.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Batteries

David Colin


Brian. RM's, Metros, Titans all had 3 x 8V batteries from Chiswick works. They were the visible 4 x 2V cell type. They were converted to 4 x 6V during the late 1980's as Chiswick battery shop was closing. We initially converted them upon failure but I think towards the end it was just get them converted. Probably because it was bonus work.

Well you live and learn, had picture on my mind of sets of 4 x 6V batteries sitting in the Mount Shop which were as you rightly say AT 10 8 volt batteries :-0 Were they as long as 12v commercial batteries put in lengthways in the crate or did I dream that as well?

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: Batteries

As far as I'm aware, the battery leads are OK. When the battery was tested at Shields I think the problem was with a duff cell. Given both failed within the space of 3 months, maybe it was due to a faulty batch of batteries. However, it's probably worth getting things checked out to avoid another failure.

My bus number (if any): RM 1699 Eastbourne Regent III (AHC442) Regent V (KHC369)

Re: Batteries

I got a new 6 volt 721 from shield and found the casing was cracked, so that had to go back too.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Batteries

Advised by my local tacho centre many years ago:

If an analogue style tachograph is fitted then both mode switches must be set to rest when the vehicle is left unattended for any length of time. The drain to run the tachograph is then much reduced. On the clock style you can actually hear the difference.

Re: Batteries

Mark Kehoe
Almost all Halfords batteries are now actually supplied by Yuasa. Just branded differently.
Most Halfords batteries now come with a 3 year no quibble warranty and nearly all their range are now calcium batteries which have a much longer non use charge.



My experience with Halfords Calcium batteries is dire. Bought one about four years ago for my Audi 90 20v which is not currently used regularly but which needs to be moved every now and again. Left it with the battery disconnected for 2 months and it was absolutely dead. Charged it fully and tried to move the car a day or so later and it was dead again so I took it back to Halfords. The manager told me that was perfectly normal and such batteries did not hold their charge! Got my money back.

For the bus, I use:
http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/commercial-batteries/630-ultra-plus-commercial-battery/

Two of these delivered to the house a couple of years ago for under £200 (inc VAT).
Went to wash it yesterday ready for Detling at the weekend and it fired up after two turns of the crank after standing since the last outing in November. Another satisfied customer.
Chris.

My bus number (if any): RT 3183

Re: Batteries

Chris

That is very good if the batteries have not been charged during that period, however it will also depend on how low the temperature is at the time of starting after such a long period standing idle. It would be better really to start the bus up every couple of weeks or so during the winter and run the engine up to operating temperature.
I do not think it is a good idea to leave a vehicle so long and then take it out without a good checkover beforehand. This is not a criticism, it is my own personal view based upon experience that vehicles should not be left for months and then started up and driven around without a good service which I expect you have done anyway.

Re: Batteries

ED, RTs are much simpler vehicles than RMs, no hydraulics, accumulators, auto gears SSGs etc etc. But you are correct a good inspection and grease up is required after a period of inactivity.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: Batteries

Funny things Batteries. I have 4 batteries all now calcium. 2 are Halfords and the other two are YUASA. The oldest is now 7 years old and perfect.
One though, the newest, does lose it's charge easily even when swapped to another vehicle.

It's going back next week, but at least with a 3 year no quibble guarantee, it will be replaced FOC.

But there does seem to be a bit of a lottery with battery consistency.

Re: Batteries

There's a very lucky East Kent bus in my shed, and a very lucky me. This owner went to start his EK Reliance a few weeks ago. The starter went "clonk" but the bus didn't start. He chatted to me for a while, we got my boost pack and went back to his bus about 15 minutes later. Went to connect the boost pack and found his batteries red hot (literally) and steaming like a train! "Run away" way my first thought, but isolate the bus first which we did.

We let the gases escape and vent for a while then went to disconnect the batteries and put them outside.

After a week or son, I brought them back in and drop tested them. One was 12v and dropping, the other was 12v and holding a charge. so I charged them both and after a few days both seem to hold charge when drop tested.

Maybe in the week we'll re-connect them and see what happens! I originally thought the plates would be badly distorted after that episode, but maybe not.

It goes to show, don't always assume because the starter goes clonk it has returned to the off position! I suspect the starter had jammed in, there wasn't enough amps to turn it and the solenoid stayed in, just draining the batteries.

I hate to think what may have happened had we not discovered the problem. His Reliance, the Fleetline, another Reliance, 2 BEA coaches, my GS and RML, an RT, an OB and GKE68 all at risk of being burnt out!

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Batteries

i thought that I would post here before proceeding with purchasing some new batteries and see if anyone has any useful advice / recommendations or pertinent comments.

I was advised in the autumn that my batteries had past the point of usefulness and needed replacing. Whilst acknowledging that expert advice, I deferred doing anything about them as they were still serving the purpose for which they were intended. That is no longer the case and they are now need replacing. The alternator was tested fine in the autumn, so I don't believe that there is a problem with that.

In case you missed it, this pertains to an RT.

My existing batteries are 664 105AH 760CCA.

I have done some internet searching and I am currently looking at Yuasa SHD. They are 664 115AH 800CCA. They have a 2 year guarantee.

http://www.thebatteryshop.co.uk/664shd-yuasa-cargo-shd-x2861048x29-12v-115ah-800cca-5064-p.asp

The total cost is £260. I'm choking a bit on the fact that £64 of that is delivery, but it seems unavoidable. Other battery options either fall short of the existing battery capabilities or cost considerably more.

Thanks,
Steve

My bus number (if any): RT3316

Re: Batteries

If you have an RT, then it has a dynamo, not an alternator. On the RT, the dynamo won't usually start charging until the engine revs above tick-over speed. The way to tell when that happens is when the cab heater bursts into life; it is wired instead of a warning light.

I use a pair of big Bosch 12 volt batteries on GS67 and whilst they will naturally drain over about 4 months on the bus, a quick charge brings them back up in no time. With irregular regular use (if that makes sense) they are well up to the job. Meanwhile the Shield batteries in the RML still won't hold the charge for more than about 3 weeks! I really must change the starter lead.

My bus number (if any): RML2532,GS67,MLL721,MLL738 and an RT.

Re: Batteries


I thought I'd post an update on my batteries, as I had quite a hard time with them.

I did not get the Yuasa SHDs from thebatteryshop.co.uk because whilst they thought that they were in stock at the warehouse, that turned out not to be the case. They subsequently advised me that the batteries were on a ship on its way from China, due in a couple of weeks - but they also said they had been waiting for a load of batteries since Christmas and they keep getting told it will be a couple of weeks.

So I chose some other batteries from batterybayuk.com (Swindon) and phoned to make sure that they were in stock and that they would be able to send them out the same day once I paid for them. However, they were unable to send them as Royal Mail (the courier they use) was refusing to take commercial batteries. The only way that I could get them would have been to go to Swindon. So I had to get a refund on those as well (my card starting to take a bit of a battering - no pun intended).

Finally I opted for Tayna and phoned them to check the situation. They were very helpful and said that they had loads of the ones that I wanted, in stock, ready to despatch. They used UK Mail to transport them. Here are the batteries that I opted for, and I am pleased with them:

http://www.tayna.co.uk/664-Enduroline-Starter-Battery-780CCA-P8490.html

They were well packed. Plenty of polystyrene inside a sturdy box to protect them from impact from any side, top or bottom. They were then sealed in a heavy duty vacuum bag with further light absorbent packing actually wrapped around the battery. The instructions to open them and allow them to breathe were clear and simple. The delivery cost was reasonable (£45 for both) and they arrived during the hour time slot specified. Tracking was available, although as UK Mail only sent the info through on the morning of delivery, the option to have them left somewhere safe was useless as it required an acceptance sheet to be printed off and left for the driver. A minor niggle. I was impressed with Tayna and the overall cost was lower too. I would definitely recommend them as they give me the impression that they are a somewhat larger supplier than most and with batteries as their main focus, provide the kind of service and professionalism that I want as a customer.

I hope my post isn't too long!

My bus number (if any): RT3316

Re: Batteries

Always an interesting read with different experiences and solutions. My batteries are Moura, 644size, not matching and must be 7 years old. Can't remember now, they would have been either cheap or a temporary fix borrowed from another vehicle .
Now starting to have non starting issues and I'm wondering if they are the problem and not alternator. Find out soon, thanks for the background info everyone..

My bus number (if any): 1842