Hi all
Anyone out in the Capital today manage to get any pictures of the last day of RM operation on route 9 ?....

If you are on Facebook Andy, I have seen some posted there, plus one or two have appeared on Flickr.

My bus number (if any): RM765 and RM548

Here are a few from earlier on Friday prior to the rain.
Apologies for the awful colours. Photobucket have a new system which is not compatible with some format embedding.
The master images are fine.

Pics in my Facebook and Flickr

At first glance the picture of 1650 looked like it had something like a Northern Counties dome, but then a good second look shows it was the way the light reflects off the dome!

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Belated thanks to all who have posted here or replied to my email. Most appreciated.

I can't help but think TfL have shot themselves in the foot here.

Working overseas for long periods as I do and usually observing from afar, so many British companies and London based companies use the image of the classic Routemaster when selling London. It's on TV, magazines, trade and tourism fairs, - all this stuff appears across S. E. Asia , the wealthier bits of the Middle East and all of Europe.

It's a big part of why people go to London which is also starting to be criticised for being a bit expensive and a lot of attractions are building a reputation for being a bit of a rip off and underwhelming.

So these two heritage routes must be underpinning and earning London and the exchequer millions of pounds albeit indirectly.

They are a golden goose asset in all aspects except probably from a service operating point of view.

I would have thought that a few bob invested in thorough overhauls for the remaining fleet and a reserve of spare buses and maybe even weekend operation of RTs and so on as well as a revision of the actual routes would have a very good investment with a return over 10 years far greater than the paltry cost saving that TfL seem to think is prudent.

Clearly those with vision work for these companies that bring the tourists in and not TfL or the GLA.

A real shame. And they did this at the peak of the tourist season too?

We seem to be venturing into what we don't want on here and that is discussion about TfL policy.
Unfortunately the Exchequer doesn't give TfL millions of £s to run Routemasters. The losses incurred in maintaining the 9H made no sense when TfL are required to save £billions.

Like it or not the NBFL attracts as many tourist passengers. Seems a sensible decision to me to concentrate the buses on one route and get the spares overhauled.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458, RM 1585 and loads of RTs

Ouch, l only enquired after photos! I agree with you, Brian.The world viewed through Rose tinted glasses does not an economical decision make. Bums on seats (awful pun) is the bottom line....

I know this is a little off the main cut but Jack has raised very good points.
And it is about keeping Routemasters on the road so it is not exactly irrelevant.

But TfL do get taxpayers funding. From Council Tax in London, Business rates, VAT income and UK taxes.

Jack's point is that the Routemaster is the image that tourists are sold on and that it brings in the revenue indirectly.

One only has to walk around London and watch for a few mins. Tourists might take a picture of a bus but they always stop to photograph a Routemaster. Shops are packed with Routemaster images and products from cheap tat right up to top quality merchandise. It's everywhere. Probably only rivalled by the Telephone box and Beefeaters.

I see it every day. And no, the Borismaster does turn a few heads but tourist attraction and icon?

That's a long way off. Maybe one day, But it has yet to earn it's stripes in spite of what the PR machine would like to have us believe.

"But TfL do get taxpayers funding. From Council Tax in London,VAT income....

No it doesn't. TfL is funded by:
Income from fares and the Congestion Charging scheme
Central Government funding, agreed to 2015/16
A proportion of London's business rates
Prudential borrowing (the amount and profile of the borrowing is set out in our terms with central Government)
Commercial development of our estate, including advertising and property rental, and development
Third-party funding for specific projects

Estimate of the loss of tourist income from the 9H being withdrawn £0

I thought it was clear that the reply re Tourism etc was to Jack Norie whose post was about tourism... I try and avoid quoting long posts as it's a waste of screen space. hint!

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458, RM 1585 and loads of RTs

Well I wont get into a spat but the graphic pie chart supplied by my local councils community charge clearly shows 17% of my council tax going to...Transport for London.

Not the case if you are not a London Borough resident.

I can scan it an post it if you want. But either way income from tourism is indirect and has not been considered.

It is bums on seats in cafes, shows, you name it but much of central London business depends on tourist ££££s.

£££££ of which tax is charged . Tax is revenue and revenue is where grants, and funding is originated.

So whilst TFL work out a figure of £0. It is only from an operating perspective.


It is exactly the same as a supermarket selling milk 70% below cost as a loss leader. It brings in customers who spend on other stuff they otherwise may not shift so easily.

Mark is indeed correct.

As I'm back home this week I've just had a look at our council tax annual statement. It breaks down exactly where every penny goes.

A large lump goes to the GLA of which £57.66 goes to TfL and other amounts to the Metropolitan Police and the Fire and rescue service.

And grants and government funding does originate from taxpayers.

Central London's retail and hospitality economy represents 68% of the economy outside of the city.

That relies on tourism from inside and outside of the UK.

Mark's analogy is bang on. Every successful business uses a loss leader to bring people in. If it were not such a crowd puller, There would be no Routemaster based hire businesses.

The list above comers from the TfL website, "how we are funded".

If I remember correctly it was local rate payers who thought they knew what was best for London Transport (and their own pockets) that led to the start of the end of the Routemasters.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960 RMC 1458, RM 1585 and loads of RTs

There was a sensible discussion on this subject on this board in January this year when Leon Daniels gave his reasons for starting a TfL consultation on the issue in his Blog. You can still read them here.

http://leondaniels.blogspot.co.uk/2014_01_01_archive.html

(Scroll down past the year of the bus section)

I also suggested that, having read the points made in Leon Daniel's blog, anyone can think of a suitable alternative route for the RMs currently allocated to the 9 route, they should make a case for it and submit it to TfL and posted the details of how to take part in TfL's consultation. I wonder if contributors to this board did?

I said then and I repeat that I think the reasons Leon give for the planned withdrawal of 9s make sense. I'm glad to see the 15s are safe ...for the time being.

For now and with grateful thanks to all the contributors, I'm locking the thread.

My bus number (if any): RMs 238, 471. 2213 & GS17