Just a thought, some other for a I belong to have a "legal" section, a database where relevant legal issues can be posted and discussed. the Taxi-driver-online has a legal database.

One link is here: http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4022 this is a case (quite a lengthy judgement) that seems to define "what is hire and reward". A précis is that Mr Albert was having a lift in his workmate's car on a regular basis; he gave the driver "petrol money". One day there was fatal accident, Albert was killed. His widow sued the insurers and lost as he wasn't insured for hire and reward, even though he was probably only just covering his expenses.

My attention was drawn to this case following a recent report in RouteOne magazine following a fatal accident involving a minibus on the M62 last year.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

That's worrying given car sharing is encouraged by our government and councils and websites such as blablacar that advertise lifts for a fee with ordinary drivers.

David Colin

My bus number (if any): RML 2276 M1001 T806

Precisely. Unless the car share driver has H&R insurance, anyone travelling in that car is uninsured unless they are family or friends going on a "social and domestic pleasure" journey.

Blablacar is a scam as they openly advertise that the drivers can make a profit!

The definition of "profit" "commercial activity" etc is in the case of Glockner Ambulanz in the EU Court. This defines "commercial activity" when cash or goods change hands for a journey, irrespective of the status of the operator i.e. "not for profit", plc, LLP, private individual, charity! Case link is here: http://curia.europa.eu/juris/liste.jsf?language=en&num=C-475/99

Do you need an operator's licence? Rout-v-Swallow Hotels gives the answer! There's a good link here https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/269891/13-limousines.pdf which also gives the Traffic Commissioner's latest edict on what constitutes a psv/novelty vehicle etc. RM owners may wish to read through this one!

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Actually, I think you have suggested a rather good idea.

Theres a ROOF section for general topics and a ROOF section for selling parts etc.

Why not a ROOF legal section?
It could be an easier point of reference especially as some of the links and details can be rather complex.
Obviously would have to carry a disclaimer that ti is only a general guide for reference etc.
No different to what may get posted now.
Just easier to find all the legal stuff in one place at a glance.

Yes, that's what I meant in my original post.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Not sure we should have a legal section. Some will take it as read and lets face it, lawyers we are not, (except for the one visitor I know who is a lawyer of course) My interpretation will be different to yours hence the many debates we have had. Test cases, DVLA, MOT, Vosa rules etc often contradict each other and are open to interpretation. I drove the Vodka Kick Peterbilt with no road speed limiter (it could exceed 100mph), no road tax, no MOT and on a car licence with nothing but a solicitors letter telling the police/Vosa etc ownership details and who to contact in the event of a query. That was approved by one person at DVLA during correspondence. Who knows what laws were being broken or which the police attempted to apply that were not applicable.

You tell me I cannot take my bus to a friends wedding at my cost as even eating a piece of cake is hire or reward. I say you are talking piffle and I am happy to go to court armed with the paperwork I have that says I can and the piece of cake.

I have read and reread the exclusions to drivers hours rules, you say I should have a tacho and comply. Again I will go to court armed with said document.

What we could do with, however, is a library of said documents with updates as they occur so people can read and work it out their-selves or consult an expert with the documents but, somewhat cynically, it would be rather like trying to make a database of where to buy parts from. Few, if any, will bother to submit information. Certainly the documents I have found have been listed or quoted on here including one that is different to the claim on fitting a tachograph section on the main website (Chris, the links no longer work by the way). I will suggest this to the RMA. Perhaps just a list of links would be useful.

re car sharing, as I said before, encouraged by our government, was that test case UK or European. I would challenge it given the pushy share a car or use a different lane campaigns in cities like Leeds.

From money saving expert.com

Taking passengers shouldn't affect insurance
If you're giving a lift to someone and asking for a contribution towards petrol costs, the Association of British Insurers says that provided there's no element of profit, your car insurance is unlikely to be affected.

However, to be completely sure, check with your provider first. Liftshare has a good template letter you can use.

I wonder if I can ask for 72 people to contribute if I give them a lift in my bus! (no, of course I cannot, my insurance excludes that, I have checked).

David

Edit
PS now I have read Jacks post, yes as I said above simply a list of legal documents for us to interpret and with the disclaimer would probably be fine. ROOL perhaps?

My bus number (if any): RML 2276 M1001 T806

Think I agree with all of that.

If the site just carries the subject and the link to the official rules and regulations that may be of relevance that would be in my view a very useful point of reference for those who own, use and operate Routemasters or indeed older buses.

Then if there is an issue for debate or clarification, the official link can be easily found and referred to.

And as I mentioned before it is a resource and would need a proper disclaimer.

I wasn't thinking of a section where we could debate the niceties of the legal side of that, we do enough of that already, but something like this http://www.taxi-driver.co.uk/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=13&sid=471e8e7cce6cb7ce6b29a1841ddd907e where I've gleaned a lot of this information.

The advice given by the insurers regarding things like car sharing may be given by call centre staff and they are not renowned for always giving accurate information. Just wait for "the accident" (like some of us are waiting for the stretch limo accident or preserved bus accident) that will open the can of worms! We all hope it never happens.

The outcome of "test cases" in the EU Courts usually over-rides "test cases" in the UK courts, but I'm not a lawyer so may well be wrong there! I usually am according to the mrs.

My bus number (if any): RML2532