We have been asked to look at an RNL in southern France that has a slipping reverse gear, it engages but slips. It has IVECO engine standard RM gearbox.

We are hoping that it just needs adjustment, but we only have the RT gearbox tool,is that any good or do we need a specialist tool for this adjustment?
Long time since I loitered in the gearbox shop at Chiswick watching my CGSA football mates adjust these on test, so cannot remember.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and many RTs

No tools required, start engine, build up air, stop engine but leave ignition ON. Engage and disengage reverse gear many times, this should self-adjust. When air runs out, restart engine and repeat the process.

It may be the reverse gear air seals worn. It's unlikely to be worn bands in reverse.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Thanks very much Roy, that is really helpful. If it is the seals, can we get some?

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and many RTs

Yes, I have them in stock.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Ordered a kit from Queensbridge before I saw your post Roy, I followed Chris's link on ROOF.
However quite amazed that they are 50% cheaper direct from Queensbridge than the members price from RMOA, surely an error?

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and many RTs

Brian,park the bus somewhere really quiet.Build up the air to maximum, stop the engine but leave the electrics live. Lift the floor trap and remove the gearbox oil filler bung. Select reverse gear and listen close to the gearbox oil filler, there is a more than a 50% chance that if reverse piston seals are leaking then you will be able to actually either hear an air leak or a bubbling noise . Alternatively you may hear an external air leak. In theory if there is an intermittent electrical fault then you will hear the EP valve solenoid click in and out. It is also possible that the air pipe for reverse gear has been hit and flattened then this may interfere with the operation.

The gap for reverse gear should in the region of be 1 1/4" (32 mm). If you come back to a mechanical problem then the procedure is the same as for an RT except you don't have a pedal to operate so you use the selector lever instead. The RT adjustment tool should fit, but you will not need the flag tool.

As for price from Rmoa they must have a lot of cuddly Routemaster toys from RM60 left over.

Thanks Roy, it appears it is "selecting reverse" and there is no audible leak.The bus has a new owner and was told by he last owner "the gearbox needed changing", but all gears apart from reverse are fine.
I spoke to Queensbridge to order the piston seals and they suggested it was most likely a piston seal leak which was not allowing sufficient air to fully engage the band and so it was slipping.

Keeping fingers crossed that is what we'll find.

Thanks again to all for input.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and many RTs

Brian

The Routemaster Association price, as advertised on our website at http://www.routemaster.org.uk/products/index/3, is for the gearbox piston seal kit with the piston gasket set as well, and not just the piston seal kit on its own.

That is why there is a difference in price.

Andrew Morgan

My bus number (if any): RM1368

If adjustment or new seals doesn't cure it, change the box. I usually have an overhauled unit available on an exchange basis.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and many RTs

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and many RTs

Brian, I assume you will be travelling some distance to look at this bus so: It is common for an inaccurate description of the fault to be relayed which will be misleading. I have come across similar 'slipping' issues which were merely down to a lack of oil in the flywheel or to the throttle dip activating; to the driver the symptoms may be the same. After driving the bus and confirming the fault you need to see if this occurs only when the bus is moving or if it can be repeated when stationary. There is an extremely remote possibility that there is a problem with the wiring to the transducer pick up on the rear axle if the bus has to be moving. While this would normally affect all gears, it can be a source of problems if the gap is too large or if the teeth are dirty or damaged. This is in an extremely exposed position so suffers from dirt and corrosion and can be a troublesome component.

The piston seals remain the most likely scenario however. I would go further than just listening at the oil filler for an air leak, I would remove the main inspection plate on the top of the box instead.

Agreeing with roy there, but trying to keep it simple, the other thing to check for is whether there's a negative earth to the bodywork as mentioned in other threads on here. This can cause problems in the gear selector panel causing 2 gear selection and could have selected reverse while the bus is going forward. Msybe a forward gear is dragging?

On refurb RMs, the feed from the gear selector is positive; switching from the control panel to the box is negative, so and chaffing of the 7 core cable could cause a bastard feed to a gear by shorting out to the bodywork IF there is negative to the body.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and many RTs

Come on Brian, we have had this conversation before on this forum. The Routemaster Association prices are including VAT (at 20%). And this explains most of the price difference.

Unfortunately VAT is "chargeable", whether you are buying from Queensbridge or the Routemaster Association.

My bus number (if any): RM1368

Last year I bought a seal kit to support the Association that sadly didn't include a gasket set, this despite the fact that the photo on the website at the time showed a gasket set was included. I queried it at the time and was informed that no gaskets were included ??

This was a bit annoying as had I gone to Queensbridge in the first place I would have got the lot for a similar price !

Now it appears the gaskets are included - does this mean I can claim my missing gaskets now ?

My bus number (if any): RML2747

I don't know the circumstances of your individual purchase. However, we have changed the prices and description when the new batch of gaskets and seals was finally delivered last year; we now supply both together.

Have you spoken to Mitch, our Sales Officer about this ? I am sure that he can answer these queries directly. Thank you for supporting the Association.

My bus number (if any): RM1368

It's close Andrew but still £10 more than buying direct, £115 > £125

To be fair I'd mistakenly taken the non members price of £156 as the RMOA price

However to correct you, we and other VAT registered EU companies don't pay VAT in the UK so I paid £96, but as the RMOA charge VAT when it's not VAT registered when we buy from them we have to pay it and cannot claim it back.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and many RTs

VAT is NOT chargeable by the association but the purchase price the association pays does include VAT and therefore affects the final selling price. It works exactly the same as when one of you sell the part you purchased to a non VAT registered customer, only perhaps with a much smaller margin and the associations small gain is used to benefit others.

I have asked the question as to why this item, presumably bought in quantity to achieve a better price, is being stocked at all if a supplier is selling at less, to anyone and in singular quantities, it would appear. The association does not usually buy parts that are readily available to all, preferring to give the owners the details of where to buy directly. Presumably those with bus repair businesses prefer to buy, mark up and sell on rather than simply telling a potential customer where to buy it directly. Wouldn't be much of a business left it that was done too often!

That said, I would like to think that RM owners are more than happy to pay that small additional amount if it funds those parts that need manufacturing or stocking because companies either will not deal with individuals or simply no longer supply the parts. It worked very well with the quill drives with the added benefit of flushing out those hidden quill drives people denied existed but soon appeared on eBay when it was realised they would no longer be in short supply.

Hopefully those of us that are members or plan to join the association will make it to the AGM in February to discuss those parts they would like to see stocked and to share information on where to purchase other items that are readily available so they do not need to be stocked or specially manufactured. Perhaps some of the more technically minded (I think all the regular ROOF contributors have been involved in this post) and especially those that have a business interest in keeping parts available and Routemasters on the road, would be happy to help others by volunteering information on where to purchase parts and offer technical help via the website or magazine even. A few technical write ups by experts would be very welcome.

I suggested last year that anyone prepared to have items in short supply manufactured but find it difficult to achieve could perhaps benefit from a joint effort with the association or another like minded individual or for those that can organise the process, even as a fully commercial project, perhaps gain further sales simply by talking to the RMA so it can be broadcast to all. Again that can be discussed and progressed at the AGM. We are, after all, seeking the same goal of keeping our bus on the road.

See you there then.

My bus number (if any): M1001, RML2276, T806

It was Mitch who confirmed that despite the website photo showing the gaskets with the seals they were sadly not included at the time.

My bus number (if any): RML2747

This thread is now re-opening a discussion we had earlier regarding RMOOA being VAT registered. One of my customers, a registered charity, is still dawdling about being VAT registered, even though it would benefit to the tune of some £20k by being registered!

What Brian says is correct, he being based in France does not have to pay UK vat on things for export, so anything bought from ROOMA including a vat element in the purchase price WILL be dearer to him.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Oh dear, I've been very busy for the last two or three days with work on my RMs, including making new mud flaps and borrowing a ¾ inch Whitworth ring spanner from a nearby railway to get the dust cap of an accumulator off. I was preparing to change an accumulator that has been losing pressure only to find it is now maintaining adequate pressure. How? - it wasn't the valve. I've changed a water hose and fan belts that, like me, are looking tired and old. Then I tried to identify the source of an oil leak from the front of one of my AV590 engines. I'm also trying to find someone within within 30 miles who will do a Class V MOT on an RM. In addition to this I'm preparing a bus for a safety inspection (now required every six weeks, not ten as before) with my Maintenance Contractor whose safety inspections seem to be more rigorous than an MOT – no complaints about that. I spent a working life picking up the pieces left when people neglect their health and safety.

Then I had to clean a bus inside and out so that it was fit for display at a Wedding Show. (This is how my RMs earn their keep.) Then spend all day smiling at potential customers, some of whom aren't getting married for years.

And I come home for a rest, to light the fire and open a bottle of bottle-conditioned Fuller's 1845 which I've been looking forward to for days, only to look at the forum and find things have got out of hand and well-respected, long-standing contributors, most of who I have met, are getting angry about issues that have nothing to do with slipping reverse gears.

For a quiet life, and without taking sides, I've deleted the last three days posts in this thread and locked it. I'm sorry because many of the recent contributions are long, carefully argued and heart felt.

If people don't like the sales policy of the Routemaster Association they should join the association, offer to help with running it and discuss their views at meetings.

I stopped selling parts that were hard to get hold of because of hurtful suggestions I was profiteering. Actually I lost money. I registered for VAT because it is easy to do on-line and means that I have to issue legal invoices for everything I provide and keep accurate quarterly accounts. This discipline means my operation works better and with total probity. I recommend it.

Please carry on contributing to this forum which is usually reasonably civilised and often extremely helpful for owners and operators of Routemasters. I'll try and keep a closer eye on it.

Happy New Year.

My bus number (if any): RMs 238, 471 & 2213. GS17