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DAF engined RM545.....

Hi all
I have just been reading this months Bus & Coach Preservation magazine and come across a picture of RM545, which is DAF engined. This is a new one on me. A cursory look on 'Ian's Bus Stop RM histories'' says this was done in 1988 or so. Can anyone tell me what's involved ,mechanically speaking,in this engine swop and why is it the only one ?
Thanks, Andy

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

Hi,

RM545 was converted as part of an initial evaluation of alternative engines that could be used, Ashok Leyland, Iveco and Cummins were the others.

Many thought the DAF application was by far the best but was beaten on cost by Cummins.

cheers

Andy

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

Thanks. any idea which company dos the install or was it done 'in house' ?

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

For the moment I have my normal brain fade for names and cannot remember the owner's, for which I apologise to him since we have met and chatted on many occasions.

545 is a nice smart bus which is in commercial use for weddings etc, it is often to be seen in conjunction with Ted Price's 357 and 898 when either of them have bigger jobs which need more buses.

The engine IIRC and have got the designation right, is a DAF DK 11.6 which is a DAF development of the Leyland 680. It like the original engines is a tight fit under the bonnet. This was an absolutely outstanding engine, the developments of which were only dropped from mainstream production about four years ago. It really was the one which should have been used.

Below is some information about the DAF 2600 lorry into which it was originally fitted and which introduced the very successful DAF range to the UK.


http://www.curbsideclassic.com/automotive-histories/truckstop-classic-daf-2600-series-the-mother-of-international-road-haulage-in-europe/

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

Andy Bufton
Thanks. any idea which company dos the install or was it done 'in house' ?
Which bus are you thinking of fitting one in Andy?

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RM 1585, RMC 1485 and several RTs

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

The bus is currently owned by Tony Peters. Below is a picture link, however I was either asleep when we did a PH together a couple of years ago, or the bit about wheelchair access is a load of rubbish.



https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Routemaster#/media/File:Media_Bus_Company_Routemaster_bus_RM545_%28WLT_545%29,_Westminster_station,_9_December_2005.jpg

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

Andy Bufton
Thanks. any idea which company dos the install or was it done 'in house' ?


Sorry, poor Grammar with sausage fingers ! Thanks all for the input, guys. Most sppreciated. So, does anyone know who did the install ?
I knew of Scania, Cummins, Iveco etc but I didn't know a DAF was trialled....

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

Their were several trials.
The indian built Ashok engine was a copy of a Leyland, Then there was also a Caterpillar engine, a DAF, Scania, Cummins, Iveco/Fiat.

There were also a few others to be trialled which fell through. A Renault/Saviem unit but it was due to go out of production and a GM unit for which funds to adapt were not forthcoming.

The DAF had a new crossmember and some modifications to accommodate it. I worked with DAF as I can speak some Flemish ( although it was never necessary to do so in the event )

The end result was, in my view, superior to the other conversions at that time. Some of the others came much later, like the second scania and cummins types. The latter of which gives a very good MPG and low emissions.

The unit performed very well ad as Roy mentions it should have been the 1st choice for mass conversion albeit with a few additional tweaks. But it was costly by comparison. It was intended as a short term bridge. As things turned out it would have been a cost effective long term success.

I think this is an ideal power unit for Routemasters sans engines as it has continued to be developed and falls within a lot of LEZ emmisions in it's final form.

If RM 545 is still running around with that same unit then it has more than justified it's cost.

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

Jack Norie
Their were several trials.
The indian built Ashok engine was a copy of a Leyland, Then there was also a Caterpillar engine, a DAF, Scania, Cummins, Iveco/Fiat.

There were also a few others to be trialled which fell through. A Renault/Saviem unit but it was due to go out of production and a GM unit for which funds to adapt were not forthcoming.

The DAF had a new crossmember and some modifications to accommodate it. I worked with DAF as I can speak some Flemish ( although it was never necessary to do so in the event )

The end result was, in my view, superior to the other conversions at that time. Some of the others came much later, like the second Scania and Cummins types. The latter of which gives a very good MPG and low emissions.

The unit performed very well ad as Roy mentions it should have been the 1st choice for mass conversion albeit with a few additional tweaks. But it was costly by comparison. It was intended as a short term bridge. As things turned out it would have been a cost effective long term success.

I think this is an ideal power unit for Routemasters sans engines as it has continued to be developed and falls within a lot of LEZ emissions in it's final form.

If RM 545 is still running around with that same unit then it has more than justified it's cost.


Still has her DAF engine Roy, enjoy this video of RM545 on a hire taken in June this year.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlrqvZZaUEY

My bus number (if any): RM967 (Driver/Restoration consultant)

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

Has anyone got an engine bay picture of this bus at all ? Thanks, Andy

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

A similar conversion was carried out on RM 2175 at Chiswick but it never went on the road. Bits got robbed off the bodywork and it went for scrap.

My bus number (if any): RM 912

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

CIE re-engined a lot of Atlanteans and Leopards with this engine and it was an outstanding success. Most of these buses gave 10-15 years service without the heads ever coming off compared to 680s which went in and out like YoYos!

This would have been the right choice for LT, shame it wasn't developed further!

The above video is a lovely sound of an RM Diff/Gearbox with the familiar sound in Dublin of a DAF 1160!

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

I had a look at this very neat installation recently. The vehicle appears to retain the chassis front cross member and the engine rear cross member. The saddle usually fitted to the rear of the sump is used to mount the engine at the rear. At the front the chassis cross member is slightly bevelled along its rear top web to accommodate the very large DAF water pump. The engine is mounted upon a fabricated additional cross member bolted to and hanging from the rear face of the chassis cross member. The cab firewall is intact. An air filter is mounted at an angle on the inner wing with its fresh air inlet taken from inside the wing framework.

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

Hello,

In answer to the question as to when the DAF engine was installed: I designed and managed the installation in 1986/1987. I should like to thank you for your complimentary remarks.

DAF Engineering Department in Eindhoven had already designed and made a special sump with a small oil pan, to fit over the front suspension crossmember, and facings for the normal RM rear mountings. This had been delivered to Aldenham works, at which point the project had come to a halt.

Wandle District then rescued it and moved the engine, plus an RM with some accident damage to the body, to Battersea, where I set up an office on top and material store inside. Battersea garage was later closed and everything moved to Wandsworth. Soon after this RM545, in need of a replacement engine, was assigned to the project and the more or less complete installation transfered from the damaged vehicle.

The front crossmember arrangement was necessary to accommodate the DAF waterpump, which could not be achieved with the original RM front mountings. It was found that the front mounting brackets from the Daimler Fleetline were just right.

The original air intake arrangement was unsatifactory, firstly, in having only an oil bath air cleaner which, in any case, was part of the engine and, secondly, drew air from a high temperature area under the bonnet (It seemed to be normal practice to drive with the bonnet propped open on hot days.). After some experimentation, it was found that air taken from inside the front wing cavity ahead of the wheel, arch was both clean and cool.

The ageing alternator, with mechanical regulator, was replaced by a (then) modern unit, supplied by Lucas at Haddenham. This unit was subsequently used on other engine conversions.

Of the, I think, three engine conversions this was the first and was carried out to the full LT specification. Colin Curtiss was kind enough to inspect it and he fully approved of it. Other, cheaper conversions were carried out later, after 'de-regulation', and were more of an economy job; the LT specification having been discarded. I have not seen any of these.

I still have all the drawings and the material list I compiled, copies of which went to Leyland Parts Department after DAF had taken them over later on.

Having served a full enineering apprenticeship at AEC Ltd several years earlier, I was already familiar with the RM and its inovative construction.

RM545 was extensively tested, at first with balast by ourselves and Wandle District engineers, by following a vehicle along the no.11 route from Hammersmith to, I think, Liverpool Street. Then it spent seven months on the no.2 route, from Norwood to Baker Street when, I believe, it proved popular with drivers as it had an additional ten horsepower.

Unfortunately, having been transfered unwillingly from Virgin Media to Talktalk earlier this year, my e-mail has not worked for some time, and I do not know when this will finally be sorted out. However, my telephone number is 01494 721364, if you should need further information.

Regards,

Jon Glenny, Chartered Engineer.
(formerly Applications Engineer, DAF Diesel GB.)

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

When I last saw this vehicle a few weeks ago the water pump had failed and it was awaiting parts from Spain.

IIRC the DKS version was the first lorry diesel engine to be intercooled and resulted in a very sought after vehicle.

http://www.daf.com/en/about-daf/daf-history?page=2#maincontent_0_RepMediaInfo_slMediaInfo_10_PnlMediaItem_10

Re: DAF engined RM545.....

I have posted on my Flickr site a picture of the engine area of RM545 that I took at the North Weald Rally in 1989;

https://flic.kr/p/BNo1Zt

Re: DAF engined RM545.....Response by Jon

Hi Jon - I don't know if anyone else has acknowledged your efforts in providing those very interesting details about this engine but thank you very much for the insight from someone who clearly has worthwhile "inside knowledge"!

My bus number (if any): RML2302

Re: DAF engined RM545.....Response by Jon

Brian Jennings
Hi Jon - I don't know if anyone else has acknowledged your efforts in providing those very interesting details about this engine but thank you very much for the insight from someone who clearly has worthwhile "inside knowledge"!


Yes Brian,good point, I was wondering when OP was coming back to acknowledge effort given to his query!

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RM 1585, RMC 1458 and several RTs

Re: DAF engined RM545.....Response by Jon

Thanks Brian - it just struck me that Jon had put a lot of effort into his reply - would have taken me quite a long time to type, with two fingers, even if I had the knowledge to put into words!!

My bus number (if any): RML2302

Re: DAF engined RM545.....Response by Jon

I haven't been on these pages for weeks due to being pre occupied with the death of my Father. Belated thanks.