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Trackrod Ends and Headlights

I took 2302 for her Class V in Meadowfield near Durham last Monday and although I'm pleased to say she passed, there was a list of advisory items, largely relating to trackrod ends (slight play in trackrod ends near and offside and draglink rear). A bit surprised that these haven't been mentioned before but maybe the criteria have changed. I have what I believe are a couple of the chrome ball joints, bought very reasonably from a well-known internet auction site, and I wondered if that was all that is needed to put this right or if I will need more, perhaps hard to get, bits such as gaiters?

I was also reminded on driving back, largely on unlit roads (A167) how poor the headlights are and I wonder if anyone could advise on whether a straight upgrade to an H4 halogen bulb is possible/legal please? I'm reluctant to lose authenticity but safety is probably more important in this instance!

My bus number (if any): RML2302

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Hello Brian, I upgraded all my RMs to H4 halogen. Not expensive and look the same in appearance but much brighgter and safer. Unfortunately night driving gets harder as our eyes age, so we need all the help we can get!

My bus number (if any): RMs 238, 471 and 2213, GS17

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

The original Headlights are Lucas 700 24v version. The same as fitted to most British cars of the era Fords BMC and Rootes etc.

There are conversion kits to turn the bayonet mounted bulb to H4 Bulbs. It does make a big difference.

But this is reliant that the silvering on the 700 lens is still good and not bloomed or decayed around the edges.

Otherwise, H4 complete units can be easily fitted. Some vary and have a flat lens instead of a convex lens, some look just like a sealed beam unit.

The latest conversions are H4 dip and main beam RMC RCL and RMA can have the newer H1/H3 units which are both cheap and hugely improved.

24v Red bayonet LEDs are now widely available which can fit directly into existing fittings. A trawl around the internet and ebay will find most fittings and types.

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

I would be surprised if a bus which went through the refurbishment programme still has the old Lucas 700 style headlamps with P36D pre focus bulbs fitted (437). I would expect to find R2 P45t bulbs fitted (429) . These are the type with the round globe and circular base with three terminals. New reflectors for this type of bulb are no longer available. The disadvantage of changing over to H4 bulb reflectors (three lugs) is retaining three point adjustment for aim, which with the amount of front end misalignment on most buses is very desirable.

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

The conversion kits for classic cars take this into account. There is a spacer which seats in the existing bulb recess which positions an H4 bulb at the right focal point.

I've did all my classic cars a long time ago now with this conversion although the silvering failing has meant I've fitted newer H4s to the one that gets used all the time. But the difference is huge.

At the same time I converted RM408 and 2129 with the same kit but wired for 24v. Very easy and takes just minutes to do per unit.

Since, several companies now offer re-silvering for headlights including the Lucas 700 as they have now become rare.
So don't throw anything away.

The classic car press often carry the contacts for these services.

For later refurb buses, they should have H4 units anyway, but otherwise it's a case of just fitting the H4 single units which again are available from classic car parts specialists.

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Sorry Mark that was not what I meant. I was referring to the external adjustment screws around the rim of the reflector's retaining ring. A three-adjuster retaining ring assembly will not fit an H4 reflector properly.It will only fit a two adjuster retaining ring. The two-adjuster set up does not allow sufficient travel on the screws to compensate for wonky headlight panels.

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Certainly do not throw away old Lucas 700 reflectors. The ones available from Classic car specialists do not have the insulated bulb holder required for the RM. If the bus has fibreglass headlight panels it is possible to get round this with care, but otherwise the answer is to refurbish the existing units.

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Thank you very much Chris, Roy and Mark. As Roy points out, my bus does have the H4 sealed beam type unit but as Mark suspects, it looks as if there is quite a large area of corrosion in the nearside reflector. The unit does have a plastic cradle with adjustment screws however. I think I will "trawl the internet" as Mark suggests for some suitable replacements. I'm thinking of using the Osram Truckstar Pro Halogen H4 bulbs which seem to have had good write ups.

On the trackrod ends point I see David Lee had a thread earlier at http://pub44.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=3715842662&frmid=32&msgid=1245907&cmd=show and I wonder if adjustment as Roythebus suggested helped? Any further advice on this point would be very helpful.

Thanks again everyone

My bus number (if any): RML2302

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights


Give John a call at PSV Partsmaster he stocks RM tracked ends. Phone number 01634 296970

Good luck getting the old one off, you will need a large ball joint remover.

David

My bus number (if any): RM765, RM548 and RM1783

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Thanks David. Did you try adjusting or just replace? As mentioned, I have the ball part - are further parts needed?

My bus number (if any): RML2302

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Try adjustment first, it's cheap and sometimes simple. It can sometimes be done in situ, but remember the threads are left and right handed! I'm certain i described how to do it on here a while ago

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights


They were previously adjusted Brian, but had too much play in them so they needed replacing.

No other tools needed apart from a wrench with a long handle as the bolts will be very tight, oh and a couple of split pins.

David

My bus number (if any): RM765, RM548 and RM1783

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Thanks Roy G and David. I can't find a previous post from Roy on the topic of adjustment using the search engine and I wonder if he could give us a quick run-through again please? Thanks again, Brian

My bus number (if any): RML2302

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Track rod end ball joints can be adjusted in-situ, but the drag link end will have to be removed. IIRC there is only a b/j at the front end of the drag link, the other b/j is on the front of the ram.

Track rod ends: remove 1/4" unf lock bolt. Using a piece of 6x40mm flat bar about 140mm long turn adjusting nut until fully tight, then back off 1/2 turn, reinsert lockbolt and recheck movement. Adjusting nuts are handed, you have to check which one is l/h thread.

It is not unusual for the adjusting nuts to be seized. The guts of a drag link end are different to those of a track rod end and likewise so are the guts of an original style side arm.

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

That's great Roy, thanks very much!

My bus number (if any): RML2302

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

As roy and I have found out, sometimes the adjuster is seized. there's been times when we've worked together by taking off the track rod end, holding it in a vice, and using the gas axe to het up the casting to get the adjuster screw freed off. Be careful you don't overheat and distort the casting. Strip it all down, clean everything, check the ball joint and cup for wear. If the ball is worn, you can sometimes turn it a quarter turn on re-assembly to use the non-worn side, but then make sure it doesn't turn when you put the castle nut back on!

Oh, and us e a ball joint extractor to remove the ball joint from whatever it goes into. When the taper joint comes free it will usually make an almighty bang and fall on your toes. Be brave, run away! :)

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Thanks Roy - steel toecaps then .... !:)

My bus number (if any): RML2302

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

I would add be very careful, like we were, when using heat to free off these joints. The tempered steel spring inside will be useless if it gets too hot and that is just one of the bits that you cannot get any more. Use a blow lamp, not oxy acetylene.

It can take 15 minutes, or all day to deal with one joint.

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Both roy and myself have worked on a customer's RT drag link end several times, I now believe the spring to be very weak as it shows up as excess play on the safety checks, but strip the end down, re-adjust it and the end play is the same!

And yes, go easy with the heat. You can also distort the housing.

Edited to add if you're using heat, don't use WD40 or similar as a freeing agent. I use ATX or ATF transmission oil as a penetrative oil, it has a much higher boiling point than WD40 or engine oil.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Thank you again Roys - invaluable expertise!

My bus number (if any): RML2302

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

The spring and the ball pin should be on the list of parts for a batch of specialist manufacture. The cups can be left to individual requirement because of the variety. Just like a selection box of split pins one lot would hardly be used and another lot would run out in no time.

If the spring is broken or too weak then just like a failed footbrake valve, the vehicle will be an MOT failure gathering dust until parts are sourced in 2020?

Failure on a ball joint is far more likely than the brake valve.

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

It's worth remembering what an LT bus mechanic told me when we talked about play on ball joints, there has to be some play on the ball joint at the end of the link from the steering ram, if not, it will snap with force of the ram.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RM 1585, RMC 1458 and several RTs

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Merci Brian!

My bus number (if any): RML2302

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

as a warning, I had a steering ball break on GS67 a few years back. Luckily it was jacked up in the workshop at the time. I spun the steering wheel lock to lock, the drag link hit the stop, the ball joint broke!

A close inspection revealed a hairline crack at the thick end of the taper. I'm glad it broke when it did, and not out on the road in service.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Wow, scary Roy - as you say, just as well it didn't happen out on the road but by the sound of it not something that could have been anticipated anyway. I suppose in the perfect world there would be a system like they have with aeroplanes where important parts are replaced after so many flying hours - and our buses have flown for quite a few hours!!

My bus number (if any): RML2302

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

I replaced some ball joint pins a year ago with some new old stock of Roy's, not because the pins were worn, but because the neck of the shank was badly pitted from corrosion at the waisted section. It was his tale of the GS incident that prompted the originals being rejected as life expired. If a bus spends long periods outdoors, particularly parked on anything other than tarmac or concrete, then these need to be cleaned off and carefully examined. The culprit had spent many years in such circumstances.

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Brian Jennings
Wow, scary Roy - as you say, just as well it didn't happen out on the road but by the sound of it not something that could have been anticipated anyway. I suppose in the perfect world there would be a system like they have with aeroplanes where important parts are replaced after so many flying hours - and our buses have flown for quite a few hours!!


The perfect world Brian was an Aldenham overhaul. All steering parts and rear axles were changed at every overhaul, irrespective of date fitted, only the engines and gearboxes were left to fail in service before replacement.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RM 1585, RMC 1458 and several RTs

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Well, that says a lot Roy and Brian - something more to remind "amateur" owners like myself that we have charge of something potentially lethal in circumstances that far from ideal....hmmm..

My bus number (if any): RML2302

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

As the Scottish lady on "Watchdog" used to say, "it's a potential death trrraaaap".

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Trackrod Ends and Headlights

Not quite so bad as "We're all DOOOOMED!" hopefully....😊

My bus number (if any): RML2302