This really isn`t helpful

(Re-posted by moderator)

Those of us who have to work with the many, and often really annoying, constraints and problems associated with taking coach tourism into central London know only too well how little will and commitment is shown to making us feel welcome. Heritage buses operating on Hire & Reward also have to follow the same coach guidelines as regards places to set down / pick up and to park. We all know that in recent years the amount of available permitted parking has reduced and whilst a major issue in the capital it`s not exclusively a London problem. A significant size coach park in a Cotswold tourist village was recently saved from closure thanks to the intervention of many people with a vested interest in promoting tourism, not least of which was one of the main organisations that fights for the coach industry. Why was the closure proposed in the first place? Because residents who overlook the coach park had reached the end of their patience regarding noise and fumes from engines left running for extended period of time despite clear signage warning against the practise.

Idling engines has been a significant factor in the closure of many central London coach bays - or is the biggest source of complaints regarding bays still in use. With an increasing number of high rise residential properties being built and readily filled in central London, pollution is now being cited as a significant cause for concern. Every written advice to coach operators regarding London be it from TFL or from within the coach industry makes it clear that idling engines are a big source of complaints and will be treated as an offence. And, as I said, heritage buses are treated as coaches and thus fall into this remit.

Late last night I returned to my coach parked in Westminster to find three Routemasters parked nearby. I don`t know when they arrived but for the hour and a quarter that I was there all three had their engines running. One did briefly leave and return from a `McDonalds` run judging by the bags I could see the drivers holding. It is inconceivable that the driver of this returning bus didn`t see that the bus he approached and pulled in front of had its offside indicator going. It was like that for the entire time that I was there. Several vehicles that approached this bus slowed as if to let it out from the kerb only to find it was a wasted gesture. I may be wrong, but it looked to me as if one of the buses had headlights left on main beam. The bus that went away and came back had been parked on the wrong side of the road with headlights left on which isn`t great for approaching traffic. When it returned, the driver joined his mates on the middle bus but left his bus with the engine running and the cab door open.

I`m not going to identify the vehicles but being `an owners and operators forum` somebody will know who this was and might just be shocked enough having read this to do something about a pretty poor image created that ultimately has the ability to affect the many people who have to deal with the daily frustration of trying to earn a living in central London. A coach is a coach - one of thousands. A Routemaster is an icon that gets noticed. It doesn`t do any favours to have them noticed for all the wrong reasons. In operating Routemasters, some people have been lucky to have a hobby turn into a living and who would have thought that the regulatory body that effectively brought about the end of Routemasters would go on to welcome them back at every stoppage of the Underground network. What I saw last night was, in my opinion, enough to tarnish the credibility of anyone trying to play a fair game taking responsibility for their actions. What I will say, before anyone starts thinking `multiple Routemasters on a private hire` is that the buses were not from a huge fleet based by the A13.

Sounds appalling Neil - I hate to see drivers of any vehicles parked up with the engine running, polluting the environment and wasting resources. Well done for mentioning it and I hope the operator takes notice.

My bus number (if any): RM2302

Maybe it is because the batteries are failing and can't be relied on to restart the engine if it is switched off? There has been a lot of discussion on leaving engines running in the trade press recently. It would be a shame if we had to have another law or regulation to bring an end to the practice because it is surely a simple matter of respect and common sense.

My bus number (if any): RMs 238, 471 and 2213, GS17

Most of us have been there. Dodgy battery, scared of the consequences of a non start minutes before picking up clients. It`s a worrying situation to be in and even starting the engine half an hour before just to prove it will start then shutting it down until departure time isn`t a guarantee that come leaving time it will start again. If it really was a dire case of a likely non-start it would be better to drive around (subject to required rest breaks) so that less attention was drawn to the bus. It might still be contributing to pollution but nobody would know it wasn`t on a legitimate positioning trip.

But there are two points of concern here - or three if general credibility is added. First, there is no excuse for now not knowing how contentious it is in central London to leave an engine running for an extended period of time. We`re already into the most testing, fragile time I`ve ever known as regards operating buses and coaches there on work other than TFL scheduled services. Being observed to be uncaring, unprofessional and, in the instance of leaving the engine running on an unattended vehicle, unlawful is doing no favours to the bus and coach industry in general and to heritage buses in particular. Most of the population don`t share our interest in old vehicles and many would see an old vehicle as being a source of pollution irrespective of a re-engine to make it compliant.

The other point is that any credible operator as well as taking note of the comments above would/should not be sending out three buses with batteries incapable of starting the vehicle once away from base having accepted the going rate for the job. If it really had to be a case of having no alternative but to use one bus with questionable battery it would be sensible to take jump leads to use if needed with one of the other two buses.

Something I didn`t mention in my original post was that one of the buses involved had the blind box door over the platform hanging open. If I noticed that in just walking past then is it really too much to ask that one of the staff might just have had the will to close it? I know it`s not an easy thing to do without a ladder but if I found something like that I would put the bus alongside the cab of one of the other buses and reach across to close the flap rather than let it hang open. Maybe it left the yard like it which only makes it worse.

Some valid points made there. I agree with all of them. Being a member of the CPT I am aware of what goes on in the background to try to improve the plight of coach parking and operation in not only Central London but other places as well. It is mainly due to the intervention of the CPT that the "other" coach park mentioned has been given a reprieve from closure.

The City of Westminster can already issue penalty charge notices to drivers and operators of coaches left with their engines running, £120 if I remember correctly. Keeping the engine running is unlikely to keep an RM interior warm unless you have the modified heating system, though it maying I expect most of us may have done in the past! make a difference in the cab. So why waste diesel and, looking at it from an engineering viewpoint, operating hours on an engine that may already be life-expired.

It is illegal to remain stationary i.e. parked with headlamps on and always has been. leaving an indicator on is pure carelessness on behalf of the driver and is something I suspect most of us may have done in the past. But then if drivers are that careless when leaving a vehicle unattended, it would make me wonder how they would treat it generally.

If batteries are suspect, get the matter sorted! It isn't rocket science to buy a new set. Mine are a bit dodgy at the moment so I take the boost pack and leads out with me until the matter is resolved.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

I totally agree with the post.

Just one point to consider is that Euro 6 engined vehicles have a requirement to regenerate to clear their exhaust systems after idling or being driven at slow speeds in traffic for long periods of time (ie their sophisticated exhaust systems have not got hot enough to convert the harmful emmissions into harmless ones). The regeneration consists of the engine self idling at relatively high revs for a longish period of time varying on the make and model. Until this procedure is carried out the vehicle cannot be driven further. At a recent London Boroughs/Tfl/CPT meeting the idling parked vehicles subject was raised by the London Boroughs and while are wholly correct in their complaints they were unbelievably completely unaware of the this phenomenon for these new ultra clean vehicles which has often been caused by crawling around at slow speeds searching for a often non existent parking space. A difficult situation has now arisen particularly if drivers are now to be fined for idling engines on parking bays and yet another blow to operators who are still prepared to go in to London.

My bus number (if any): RML2747

Have a look at today`s London Evening Standard web site. In the news section is `Ban all diesel vehicles from central London` which goes on to pull no punches regarding buses being the cause of significant pollution and suggests that in a recent poll over half of those questioned think diesel buses should be banned. Coming just days after I said that `most of the population don`t share our interest in old vehicles and would see one as a cause of pollution`, the timing of this is worryingly unfortunate for `older vehicles`.

It only goes to emphasise how stupidly unhelpful were the antics of the three Routemaster drivers (idiots) that I observed last Saturday night. Real `playing into the hands of the enemy` stuff. Will heritage Routemasters still be operating in central London in five years time? It`s not looking good........

Good on Neil to be brave enough to bring this up. He is right. Heritage operators need to be whiter than white and set an exemplary example in such times.

No. it's not good and it smacks of the handful of jobbing drivers who are not professional and those who have not grown out of the bus spotter mentality or casual attitude as portrayed in TV's "On the Buses".

Any proficient RM driver knows that idling for too long is very bad for the engine. Given the traffic levels, engines are already not getting the easiest of treatment.

We are in 2016 with London massively overpopulated and it is only just becoming apparent to Londoners that it's population growth is both badly managed and out of control. Space, of any sorts is now more precious than Gold.

But technology exists for Older buses like RMs to co-exist and be used commercially for a good while longer.
The problem is, as several operators are starting to find, getting quality manpower who have the mentality to understand and adapt.

The Bus and Coach operating organisations with TfL and Nationally could come up with a few solutions.

Like plug in facilities at Coach Stands to allow for the heating and facilities that customers now expect. Ie a warm, dry coach in winter and a nice cool one in hot weather.

Inexpensive to install, this could be funded collectively by those who make use of the facility and jointly by transport authorities.

This could facilitate the risk of a non start which can even affect a younger vehicle.

A single standard plug in and a single standard charge. With every vehicle carrying a lead to cover the length between charging posts.

Even a battery booster for 24v is now small enough and light enough to stash under the stairs..

Use of LEDs in lighting is now at a point where Period style Tungsten can be replicated but with a fraction of consumption.

Coming over to London just periodically has shocked me at just how overcrowded it has become. A bit like Hong Kong in the 1980s. It's not looking such a good place to be anymore.

But driver and crew standards need serious attention, but it's a mindset that might be a lot harder to crack than a seized track rod end.