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Window Rubber

We have been asked what the lead time is for a quantity of window rubber for a major refurbishment, I understand there is no stock with the RMOA , but does anyone know if any is on order and when it will be available? failing thaty, does anyone hold stock of say 50 metres they'd be willing to advance?
Thanks

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: Window Rubber

Brian, not wishing to stir up ill feelings on here, I bought a batch of the RMOOA window rubber and found it very difficult to use. Others I have spoken to found the same. It is larger in section to the original rubber.

Baines sell one that is nearer the original and is also used for RT drivers cab side windows, RFW cab windows and Weymann pans fitted to RLHs and the old Chatham & District bus I rebuilt. I can't remember the part number off hand but they keep it on the shelf. It's also easier to use! I've found there's several types of rubber that fir the Widney window pans.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Window Rubber

Interesting that you should mention the RM rubber being difficult to install Roy. We are having problems on mine currently. We have tried the leaving out in the hot sunshine, throwing it in bucket of hot water. Both to soften up, then of course the washing up liquid. Latest idea is grounded chalk powder to ease it in. But still a pig to install and taking an age. We are reusing the old glass. I know that the PSV glass is slightly thicker so that's not the issue. I need to chase the RMOOA regarding this issue and see where i get with this, i wonder if they changed supplier?

My bus number (if any): RM158, RML2460

Re: Window Rubber

Morning all
The good news is the rubber delivery finally arrived on Friday. The other news is, or so I am told, lower priced than that mentioned above. I have no idea by how much.
Regarding the difficulty in fitting, Rob Duker has used quite a lot of this so it is clearly usable. I haven’t so can offer no suggestions other than to perhaps try Rob for tips.
If anyone is awaiting a previously ordered amount please feel free to nudge me via my email.

David Colin

My bus number (if any): M1001 RML2276 T806

Re: Window Rubber

I've spoken at length with Rob Duker about the Association window rubber and he agrees it's not easy to use. Others I've spoken with agree and one I spoke to recently has returned it to the Association as being not fit for purpose.

The answer may be to use the Baines rubber of similar section. Quite why the Association rubber is so much bigger is a mystery. It's bigger than the original, which appears to be slighyl bigger than the Baines product.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Window Rubber

The Association rubber is usable but you will need a rubber hammer and a wedge shaped block of very hard wood. I usually cut a wedge of 1" x 1" x 4" and around 3/16" at the thin end. Make sure you remove ALL debris out of the Chanel and try to keep any lubricants away from the inside lip as this will ruin wood and you will end up chunking the rubber to hell. Tap (whack!) the rubber at an angel to force it in and down at the same time, be prepared to sometimes hit it hard! Always size the rubber correctly on each pan by fitting it without the glass first and always check you have the small flange seated correctly on the outside. You will get the knack of it, just be patient.

Re: Window Rubber

roythebus
I've spoken at length with Rob Duker about the Association window rubber and he agrees it's not easy to use. Others I've spoken with agree and one I spoke to recently has returned it to the Association as being not fit for purpose.

The answer may be to use the Baines rubber of similar section. Quite why the Association rubber is so much bigger is a mystery. It's bigger than the original, which appears to be slighyl bigger than the Baines product.
Makes a change for it to bigger (probably drew around a section of it to get new pattern) We and Sandtoft bought a load of RT rubber (ordered as a group purchase by Cobham, that was too small and soft as you know what!! It left gaps between glass and rubber all round the corners. Rob Duker happily came to the rescue and got some of the right dimensions ordered from Baines.

You can use the cream that tyre fitters use on this rubber, but it really should not need to be banged in, all it needed was a glazing spoon and as fitted from inside was far easier to do than RTs. Remember when cutting it to put the joint at the top....

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: Window Rubber

I too had some of the soft RT rubber bought many years ago for my BEA coach. It proved unusable and ended up on the non-enviromentally friendly bonfire at the previous premises. I too got the right stuff from Baines.

I also use a wedged bit of wood and a mallet to try to get the RM window rubber in. It worked eventually but it is bloody hard work and my wrists and fingers won't take that amount of impact any more. The Baines on is similar and also fits RT cab side windows and the RFW cab side window. It's slightly smaller in section than the original RM rubber, and quite a bit smaller than the association rubber. I agree with Brian, there should be no need to use such force to install windows, even when using tyre fitting paste.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Window Rubber

As one of the owners that sourced this window rubber over 20 years ago, it is strange to start getting comments now .....

I can assure you that it was taken from samples (yes, more than one, and myself and a colleague still have the original samples as well as the original new profiles that were produced until we accepted one that fitted) from RM vehicles at the time.

All I can say is that many thousands of metres of this window rubber have been manufactured and fitted to Routemasters over the last 20+ years.

My bus number (if any): RM1368

Re: Window Rubber

Andrew Morgan
As one of the owners that sourced this window rubber over 20 years ago, it is strange to start getting comments now .....

I can assure you that it was taken from samples (yes, more than one, and myself and a colleague still have the original samples as well as the original new profiles that were produced until we accepted one that fitted) from RM vehicles at the time.

All I can say is that many thousands of metres of this window rubber have been manufactured and fitted to Routemasters over the last 20+ years.
The problem appears to be with the last batch Andrew. Were all batches sourced from the same company? We used the stuff that was around when Rob Duker was parts man and that was OK.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: Window Rubber

The company has not been changed.

My bus number (if any): RM1368

Re: Window Rubber

I've used the rubber on a few different RM/RML's with varying results, I sweated buckets hammering it in on one but the last time i used it (lower deck rear) it went in easy. There may be other factors to consider, what about atmospheric conditions, thickness of the glass (PSV glass is unquestionably thicker than original), paint on the window pan, build up of dirt in the channel or incorrect fitting. I had the the most problems on my first attempts.

Having said that i did have a 15-20 metre roll of original a few years back that did fit better, but not a lot better!

Re: Window Rubber

That is a very good point that Dave Simmons raises! The thickness of the replacement glasses.
I tried to use the correct sized rubber on RT windscreens (and RM ones) and it would not go in to the frame without force, it is the metric sized glass that is making the difference. I now use rubber strip to build up a good seal for the windscreens, not a solution however for the side windows...

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: Window Rubber

From my experience of different types of buses, I'd suggest that most window pans were all made by Widney. I recently partly restored a Weymann bodied Bristol. the owning group said they had a job finding window rubber. I took one look and produced a roll of RM rubber off the shelf which was almost identical.

A further search revealed a roll of similar rubber from Baines that I used for the RT side cab window and cab side window for RFW14. I've used that for some windows on our RML with no problems. It's slightly smaller section to the original RM rubber that came out of our bus and that may have shrunk a bit over the years.

I found the channels in all the Widney pans are the same, give or take a millimetre. It's the lip arrangement that varies.

As for glass, yes, the PSV glass is metric as it all glass these days, but window rubber ought to be able to cope with that. For windscreens I've used the same method as Brian, used flat strip bent to a u shape and tap everything in place with a mallet. But I'm afraid I've given up with the RMOOA rubber, it's too difficult for me to fit now that arthritis is setting in, the Baines stuff is far easier on my wrists!

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Window Rubber

Following on from this we have had confirmation that the rubber is required, so we have asked for 50 metres from the RMOA but That was only ordered direct to David today.

We need this rubber for collection from the UK on 19 or 20 October, If the RMOA cannot supply by then, has anyone 50 metres we can have on account and pay back when the RMOA can supply?

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and several RTs