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RM for sale?

Harry’s old bus up for sale?


http://www.coys.co.uk/cars/1959-leyland-aec-routemaster-double-deck-bus-by-park-royal

My bus number (if any): BS5

Re: RM for sale?

This has Body B1609, so some interior features different to the original B108 but I see it has aluminium cant rail mouldings with plastic insert, can't have been much after this one that they changed to a flat painted moulding. Anyone know which was the first bus to have this modification?

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: RM for sale?

I thought that B1356 marked the changeover to the flat painted moulding and beyond that only the RMC`s had the `jam sandwich `style. RM 1563 has the later style on B1552. Something doesn`t look right here........

Rather fortuitous coincidence if the bus and many classic cars are going to be on display `for viewing` at Syon Park tomorrow as that`s where I`ll be with a coach tour. Not that I`m expecting to get anywhere near the RM!

Re: RM for sale?

I have RM 1356 as the first to have the flat painted cant rail mouldings if your RM has them then RM 108 cannot have B 1609 or it has had them installed.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: RM for sale?

It would be interesting to see if the Conductors bell push is in the upper or lower position. All those in the lower position should only go with the earlier type of `jam sandwich` cant rail moulding.

Re: RM for sale?

I carried out a few hours work on this vehicle earlier this week; I was not aware of its imminent sale. Compared to the last time I saw it at Showbus shortly after Harry had taken delivery, the pictures show that it has had further restoration work done to the interior, with the seats now recovered and IIRC, the old wall covering replaced. Since my equally lamented friend Ted Price has, like Harry since died, and since like me he was involved too in the vehicle's initial restoration for Harry, I can say that he would have ensured that when it went to the paintshop decals were applied under the canopy to identify the body fitted. What is obvious from the pictures is that it does not have fixed front upper deck windows. In fact, when Harry first had it the vehicle had an incorrect n/s drop glass window bar fitted on the o/s/f, since we were unable to obtain the correct fitting. About the only things of interest to enthusiasts I noticed on Tuesday was that in spite of it sounding like an AEC, the vehicle is still in fact Leyland powered and has Simms electrics.

Re: RM for sale?

Neil G
I thought that B1356 marked the changeover to the flat painted moulding and beyond that only the RMC`s had the `jam sandwich `style. RM 1563 has the later style on B1552. Something doesn`t look right here........

Rather fortuitous coincidence if the bus and many classic cars are going to be on display `for viewing` at Syon Park tomorrow as that`s where I`ll be with a coach tour. Not that I`m expecting to get anywhere near the RM!
Just found an interior shot of RM 1000 which has body B1604 and it has the flat painted cant rail mouldings. Check of Aldenham records says RM 108 was fitted with B 1609 26 April 1981, but either it wasn't ie an Aldenham error that was never corrected, so this doesn't have B1609 or someone has gone to a lot of trouble to change the mouldings on RM 108, and that I doubt.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: RM for sale?

Well, much to my surprise, I was able yesterday to have a look at RM 108 at Syon Park. The notion that dozens of potential bidders would be fighting for space around the vehicles on display for `viewing `prior to the auction was way off the mark. When I wandered in there was nobody else there and my approach to the staff on site was met by a friendly response to have a look round. I even pushed my luck and asked if I could take some pictures and to have a look inside the RM. Go ahead, they said....





So, some observations. Here`s the proof of the `upper `position bell push



A very tidy interior. The seats are in good condition but many are very faded. They look 1980`s. Certainly not recently re-trimmed.




I and a colleague made a point in the early 1980`s of trying to list every RM that had PermaFloor. All of the buses that had it it were in the B1400 - B2000 range. Some, but only some in that range didn`t have it. My records show that the body supposedly on this bus (B1609) was one that didn`t have it.



No bus that had `jam sandwich` mouldings should have had PermaFloor. What do you reckon to this picture, Brian? Doesn`t look like LT standard to me...






Lots of little things are not correct but I have to take the view that it is the owners prerogative to do as they please.




Very tidy engine




This doesn`t neccesarily mean anything




There is no body number displayed. I reached up and ran my fingers along where one should be expecting to find the outline of transfers but it was totally smooth. A new panel? Well rubbed down prior to painting? A reason for not wanting it seen?

It`s a very tidy bus and I hope it goes to a new owner and survives as seen here in a way that the previous owner would feel happy with. Guide price of 50- 60K could rule out many genuine preservationists.




The first part of this text just goes to show how appearances can be so deceptive. Those who don`t know about the vagaries of Routemaster overhauls would just assume what logic suggests. I think this is actually an RM from 1963.....




I`m not going to be able to add to this over the next few days as I`m about to go out of the UK for a short break....

Re: RM for sale?

All very odd!
What would have been interesting would have been to see the moulding from the cant rail to the waist rail curving behind the rear upper saloon window. On early buses this is aluminium with maroon insert, on later buses a flat maroon moulding.
I can't believe someone went to all the trouble of fitting the aluminium jam sandwich mouldings, for a start they have more screws, far less screws are used on the flat painted mouldings! The conductors bell puts it as after B1335 and if the aluminium ones are "original" a body between B1335 and 1355!
I have just seen courtesy of Malcolm Allan, that this was the Elmers End Show bus. Is it possible when they took off the mods like the colour band off the U/S radiator intake grille, they actually installed this aluminium moulding? In one place on the top deck as Neil's photos shows, it is short by over 1" so certainly been taken off at some time. Wonder what screws are under that plastic insert, the original ones are countersunk.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: RM for sale?

Having checked Keith A. Jenkinson's Routemaster Dispersal book, RM108 does indeed carry B.1609 which of course was new as 609 DYE. I also noticed that RM1609 is still extant in France and carries lower B.438.

My bus number (if any): RMs737, 875 & 1353 (driver)

Re: RM for sale?

We bought RM 1609 from PVS at Barnsley
We sold it to Eric Vaultier who had made an excellent job of restoring it for transport at his racing circuit near Lyon.

Doesn't explain why RM 108 has old cant rail mouldings though....Someone must have gone to a lot of trouble fitting them.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: RM for sale?

Interested to hear that RM108 didn't sell at the auction.

My bus number (if any): RMs 238, 471 and 2213, GS17

Re: RM for sale?

Think it may go back onto Classic Car or ebay Chris?

My bus number (if any): RMs737, 875 & 1353 (driver)

Re: RM for sale?

Brian Watkinson
All very odd!
What would have been interesting would have been to see the moulding from the cant rail to the waist rail curving behind the rear upper saloon window. On early buses this is aluminium with maroon insert, on later buses a flat maroon moulding.
I can't believe someone went to all the trouble of fitting the aluminium jam sandwich mouldings, for a start they have more screws, far less screws are used on the flat painted mouldings! The conductors bell puts it as after B1335 and if the aluminium ones are "original" a body between B1335 and 1355!
I have just seen courtesy of Malcolm Allan, that this was the Elmers End Show bus. Is it possible when they took off the mods like the colour band off the U/S radiator intake grille, they actually installed this aluminium moulding? In one place on the top deck as Neil's photos shows, it is short by over 1" so certainly been taken off at some time. Wonder what screws are under that plastic insert, the original ones are countersunk.
Seems I was right Neil!
Chap on facebook has confirmed that Elmers End actually went to the trouble of swapping the cant rail mouldings on both decks from RM 64 (which had B64) when RM 108 replaced it as their Showbus. Who said garage staff were run off their feet....

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: RM for sale?

Although I don`t do Facebook, I can see the RM appreciation site and have read the thread regarding RM 108.

Too many things just don`t add up.

RM 108 was the first `showbus` at ED arriving from overhaul in May 81. RM 64 arrived in September 81 and would have been a more suitable `showbus` on account of having its original body. As the corespondent on Facebook said `when RM 64 arrived we swapped lots of interior parts from RM 108`. Why? What would RM 108 with B1609 have that was better or more authentic than RM 64 with B64?
He also says `we changed RM 64 from a Leyland to an AEC`. As far as I`m aware, no early bodied RM`s had Leyland engines.

I`ve found on Flickr a couple of good, clear, shots of RM 64 taken in 1982. One taken at a rally with the bonnet open shows an AEC engine - and in the other picture the original `jam sandwich` moulding is clearly visible. Which rather overturns the statement made. We can all agree that the `jam sandwich moulding on RM 108 with B1609 should not be there. So where did it come from? Not off RM 64. Why would it?

I`ve just put a couple of my slides in the projector: One is of RM 64 in service in September 1982. It looks superb as a 1960`s appearance showbus. By this time RM 108 had been `abandoned` as the ED showbus.

The other slide is one I took in July 1984 having posed RM 108 at Bus Sales on 17 July 1984 just after it came back from chassis clean and silvering prior to sale for preservation. It has a white band and white roundel and as one of the first RM`s sold into preservation, it has the legal letting painted out and also the garage code - but ED is still visible. I recall this sale well as the chap who was buying it stalled on the collection date a couple of times which created a concern that it might be an aborted sale but it eventually departed on 14 August 1984 - having been listed as withdrawn on 9 June 1984. If I had a magnifying glass I could probably see for sure if it has the `jam sandwich` moulding.

RM 64 departed from the Sales Department on 21 May 1985. It was listed as a `wear & tear` engine failure and was one of over fifty AEC engine RM`s to go for scrap in that month as a result of a big clear out at Bus Sales.