Hi All
About six months ago I required a RML with a Cummins C engine.

I took my bus from my base in Stroud Gloucestershire to a so called Routemaster Specialist Not far from the M25 Area as he was recommended.

It’s been a total disaster 😬
It was away for over 3 months and it only went in for a service and reverse gear slipped.

He has fitted a gear box then told me the EP valve needed replacement,
Then he rang to say it now needs a compressor and a gear stick assembly.

After spending about 8k we collected our bus and reverse gear was still slipping we set off on the M4 towards home.

After a few miles I noticed in mirror something fell off the back of the bus onto the motorway so I pulled over to find my exhaust from the box back was completely missing and it ended up on the grass next to the hard shoulder 🤷‍♂️ It was rotten.

About 10 miles from Bristol the flag dropped so back on the hard shoulder again waiting for a tow truck as I wouldn’t Drive it even tho the so-called routemaster expert said on the phone 📞 yes its ok to drive but go slowly 🤔

My bus is now in Bristol in the tow truck owners yard and one of there engineers fixed the reverse gear problem that turned out to be just a loose air pipe.

So my question is were is the best routemaster specialist who has a decent workshop who has the expertise and the equipment to maintain these machines properly and keeps a good stock off parts.

I have looked at the Routemaster Association Website but there are no links for maintenance 🤐.
I have been told told there is a good reliable firm who have a very good reputation somewhere in South Wales but they don’t advertise so I cannot find who He / Her or they are.

For obvious reasons I can’t name my bus number at the moment or so called expert because this will become a legal case.

Thanks in advance
Bob

try londonbus4hire

Bob

The links for maintenance type companies are listed on the Routemaster Association website in the member's area: see the link to the Suppliers listing.

Andrew Morgan

My bus number (if any): RM1368

The person nearer to you that you are looking for is Martin Detheridge of London Bus 4 Hire, based in Usk South Wales.

You are living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that Routemaster parts are readily available off the shelf. Owners have created their own problem by being more interested in the secondhand part that rumour has Fred has had ferreted away for the past 20 years, and which can be had for a fiver, rather than either a recently manufactured new part or a reconditioned unit. The result being that those who were prepared to invest in holding stock are simply losing interest in dealing with the enthusiast community any longer; quite simply they are seen increasingly as time wasters merely wanting to know if the part is sitting on the shelf in case it might be needed. I could lead you to a stock of recommissioned items at a supplier, that people were weeping and wailing about a few years ago because they could not be obtained, which have been gathering dust ever since.

Like others I can make a guess at whom you may be criticising in this thread. I can say categorically that this does not sound like the behaviour nor the standards of the person about whom I am thinking.

Since there has always been so much misunderstanding and bad feeling towards the motor trade by vehicle owners in general it is only fair to point out that things are not necessarily as simple as first observations might assume.

The cause of your gearbox problem could have been pneumatic, electrical, mechanical or even some combination of these possibilities. The inference given by your description is that there was nothing wrong with the gearbox, the EP valve or the gear selector assembly and the fault all along was a loose air pipe. The advice that these items and a compressor were recommended may well have had nothing to do with the reverse gear problem, but still warranted report since there were faults with each one of them.

Having noticed very soon after collecting the vehicle I am struggling to understand why you did not simply return to the workshop and point out that the problem had recurred. I am even more mystified quite how far you were travelling in reverse after leaving the workshop. If the recovery company found the air leak then one would assume that it was readily detectable and you would have been on your way quite quickly. The act of renewing the gearbox would have necessitated disconnecting air pipes, either by the reconditioning company or your repairer so the inference mentioned is unjustified.

If the vehicle was in the workshop for three months then it would be most unusual for the service to have been carried out just before collection, more likely it was done soon after arrival so that any extra work or parts needed could be identified and the vehicle subsequently moved out of the way while the gearbox was away. Operators and workshops will tell you that vehicles in general and especially old vehicles suffer what is termed ‘Standing Still Disease’ which manifests itself with previously operating systems failing or apparently unexpected faults developing. It also affects severely the service life of fairly recently fitted components. I have lost count of the number of rearmost exhaust sections I have replaced over the last two or three years. These deteriorate at an alarming rate anyway, but even more so when inactive. The flag drop while moving at a steady speed is a common fault which would fall into the category of occurrences after a long period of idleness, but which is not necessarily predictable.

I have to agree with what roy says as both he and I repair and maintain Routemasters. We both live in Kent, so wouldn't be on the doorstep for anyone living in the west country.

Very few of us have a vast stock of new or recon spares on the shelf as they are now quite expensive to get rebuilt or reconditioned. I used to keep shock absorber/steering rams/wheel cylinders/relined brake shoes/a gearbox/a radiator and various other odds 'on the shelf" but can no longer really afford to have that amount of money tied up in stock. Parts have been made in batches and roy and I know the supplier near us who has a stock of parts that "everybody wanted" and are still sitting on the shelf.

A while ago somebody wanted a couple of C springs for the brakes. Thinking he had a breakdown due to the urgency of his message we phoned around to try and help him, only to find that he didn't actually need them, he wanted them to sit on the shelf just in case! Luckily I couldn't find mine; not so long ago one on our RML2532 broke when it was being removed and I'd had a tidy up and found one the previous week.

Remember too there's customers out there who shaft the repairers by sending lots of emails and make phone calls wanting to know how to diagnose faults and until fairly recently I used to respond as best I could. I supplied a recon unit to someone who then sent it back 6 months later saying he didn't want it. It cost me a lot of money, so in future anyone buys from me gets a lengthy legal bit of paper which has of course added to the cost of the part. Otherwise it's a couple of emails then clear off. If you want our knowledge, pay for it.

As to the best, I agree with roy, Martin Detheridge is nearest to Gloucestershire. I haven't used his services but we all tend to know each other on a professional level and help each other out when required.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

I would add to my previous post that I would expect to have to pay storage fees for a vehicle that was occupying workshop space for three months while the required parts miraculously fell from the sky.

Hi Guys

Thanks for all your comments .
I made some enquiries to day with a few Routemaster operators and the likes of Imperial engineering / Go a head / Metroline / Bath Bus Co and couple of bar bus firms and they all suggested Martin Detheridge @ LB4H in Monmouthshire is the best person when it comes to Routemaster maintenance and reliability.

So I will make contact with LB4H and report back on here
I will also ask to see there public liability insurance as I suspect there are a few Routemaster specialist who don’t have any insurance.


Roy

I don’t expect anybody to keep everything in stock for a Routemaster but the so called RM specialist engineer told me the exhaust fell off because he couldn’t replace the rotten parts as they were not available anymore.

As for not taking the bus back because the reverse was STILL not working correctly,
Do you not think over 3 months was enough time to fix the problem ?
also I generally don’t drive long distances in reverse however I checked it before I left the repairers yard.

As you can imagine I had enough of being messed around and I just wanted to get our bus from there.

The tow truck firms engineer could here the air leak when they tried to reverse the bus in there yard and it was fixed with in 5 minutes.

I personally don’t think the So-called specialist was correct when he told me yes its fine to drive with the flag down but go slowly,
what do you think ?

Bob

I

Roy
Do you Know this so-called Routemaster specialist then it sounds like you think I am being unreasonable and out of order ?

I certainly would have no intentions for paying a storage charge if our bus is in for repair or a service.

As I said the Bus went in for a reverse gear fault and a full service.
Cost it not a problem he was told to do what ever needed doing to make is safe and reliable,
He did tell me that a MOT was not need but I intend to get a MOT done anyway.

What ever it costs it costs that is not a problem but I probably paid for a gear box / EP valve and a second hand gear stick unit that was not needed however I cannot prove this.

And you seem to think that we should pay a storage charge when it was not our fault he had our bus for so long and after spending over 8K it still was not repaired properly.

I am not sure I would use your services Roy no dis respect.

Bob

Sorry, but I cannot believe that any reputable repair establishment would let you take a Routemaster out on the road with the flag down and tell you that it was okay to drive.

The flag means what it says - i.e. STOP - so it should not be driven.

As Colin Curtis once said to me, he went out to numerous accidents where the driver would say that the brakes had failed; he would ask the driver if the flag was down and when they said yes, he would just walk away and say "well driver ....."

My bus number (if any): RM1368

I totally agree Andrew it is beyond belief.

I am taking legal action so the person cannot be named at the moment For obvious reasons,
Surely I am not the only person who has had a bad experience with maintenance engineers.

I contacted Martin D this morning from LB4H who told me in no circumstances should any Routemaster be driven with the flag down,
This is the complete opposite to what the other guy told Me.

Martin D seems to know what he is talking about but he would not comment on the repairs the other firm did with out personally inspecting my vehicle 1st.

It remains to be seen if he really knows what he is talking about but he comes very highly recommend by everyone but LB4H are fully booked till February next year with regular customers so we will wait and hopefully get our bus sorted for next year.

Martin D said he was happy to send me copies of there public liability and trade insurance so that is reassuring.

My advice is to everyone is don’t make the same mistake as I did and use a Repair establishment who are NOT insured.

Roy I do realise that parts don’t fall out of the sky 😇.

Cheers
Bob

I had deliberately avoided the subject, but naturally I have to agree with Andrew regarding the flag, so there must surely have been questions asked, which I am NOT going to go into, for this advice to have even been considered. Either the story is incomplete, or the repairer is an idiot. We do not want discussion on what those questions might have been. The short answer is flag falls means STOP and await assistance.

A falling flag, exhaust parts and storage charges link neatly together. We have already established that parts are not growing on trees. However much admiration we may have for the vehicles, nothing can alter the fact that they are obsolete, hence spares are difficult or sometimes impossible to obtain. A vehicle of this size takes up considerable space in a workshop, the aim of any repairer is to turn the vehicle around as quickly as possible so that the bay can be used for the next revenue- earning job. A blocked bay occupied by a vehicle awaiting parts means that other work may well have to be turned away because there is nowhere suitable to carry it out. It is common for elderly vehicles to be awaiting parts for months and even years while these are either found or made. In many cases the parts required have to be manufactured in small batches with long lead times and at such considerable cost that for it to be viable extra orders need to be obtained. In some instances, customers want to source their own parts and do this in their own sweet time.

So, for example it has been mentioned that the rearmost sections of the RM exhaust are not available. Quite true, or rather it was in June when I ordered, delivery came in late September or October IIRC. In the meantime, I had to make up new clamps and brackets to fit a long length of flexible to keep the bus on the road. I still cannot fit the new sections because the intervening period has seen the silencer rot out. This is now on back order with no quoted delivery date. This has meant quite extensive temporary repairs to the silencer which have cost more than the silencer itself will do.

Perhaps even more relevant, there is a possibility that the flag problem MAY be caused by the footbrake valve. Since practically all core units returned to Imperial Engineering had been found to be past reclamation, these have been unobtainable for a very long time. The RM association commissioned a batch of new valve bodies a while ago. These have all been sold out and another batch is now in the process of being ordered. I don’t know the lead time, but I do know that this is an expensive item, one certainly that would tempt some to spend time trying to source something second hand; meanwhile missing the boat. The same issue - and proposed solution - has arisen with power steering rams.

I repeat, I would expect a repairer to be notifying me that storage charges would apply after a certain amount of time while parts are awaited. I hope the OP does not require one of these valves because it seems that the vehicle has been VOR for long enough anyway, but should that be so then maybe the point might be appreciated.

Although Employees Liability Insurance and a copy of sections of the Factories Act are required to be displayed, there is no legal obligation to have Public Liability Insurance. Obviously, anyone with any sense does have cover for this; the alternative does not bear thinking about. While it would be standard practice for many companies, and particularly those which are ISO 9000 registered, to request sight of a contractor’s Public Liability Insurance, should I be asked by any private individual to see my PLI then I would seriously consider telling them exactly what they could do with their vehicle.

I get were you are coming from Roy what you’re saying is reasonable but only if the parts were unavailable and the owner was told that he or she would be charged for storage.

However in my case all the parts he fitted are available and except for the exhaust that he did not replace anyway.

Martin Detheridge @ LB4H explained to me this morning that exhaust are made in batches and you sometimes need to wait for a month or so,
He also said they generally keep 3 exhaust systems on the self to avoid the problem but even then you can use up your stock before the replacements come back into stock.

I have also offered to put money up front to help the likes of the Association and Imperial Engineering get parts made.

I am sure there are a few good engineers out there I guess I was unlucky and then I was a bit harsh generally on others who make a living from working on these wonderful machines.

My mistake was I should of asked around before assuming that every commercial garage knows about Routemasters.


I am no engineer I have a couple of scrap metal yards and the Routemaster was sent to us to be scrapped with the contents of a large industrial unit.

My family fell in love with him so he is part of our family now
However the thought of scrapping the bus did cross my mind when I was waiting 4 hours for a tow truck in the cold and rain on the M4 🤗
Thanks for your comments guys

Cheers
Bob

Bob you are not the onnly person to have had problems with said recommended company, we used him once.... maybe we were also unlucky!
Re Exhausts I thought Roy Gould had found a company in Ashford Kent that made up RM exhausts to order from patterns..., other than that they are a lottery, we were lucky that there was one in stock for our bus and Roy kindly collected it for us :)

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458, RM 1585 and several RTs

Brian is correct, yes there is a company in Ashford who can make up ANY exhaust FROM A PATTERN (sorry no option on forum for italics). As Andrew has mentioned Dinex currently only make RM exhaust parts in small batches . There is clearly a reason for this in that demand is slow and they wish to sell the product rather than have it taking up warehouse room for ages. In comparison with other commercial vehicle exhaust part prices of the RM bits are quite cheap, however to maintain the ability to achieve these prices obviously they need to order in batches of a suitable size. It takes time for numbers to accumulate.

Just about every motor factor in the country is capable of ordering product from Dinex, all that is necessary is the catalogue part numbers. I have been banging on for the last 10 years about sufficient demand to maintain the interest of parts suppliers.

A while ago it seemed that track rod ends were available again, alas this was not so, the item was actually the side arm.
It is possible to have the bronze cups made to take up the wear, however the spring, ball pin and most importantly the housing are not available, without these the fifth time of fitting an old ha'penny inside will not work any more. Before long there will be a weeping, a wailing and a stamping of feet when it becomes clear that a number of buses are parked up on bricks.

We have to maintain the interest of suppliers to do business. If we go back over the last ten years or so there has been great enthusiasm for: sliding cab bulkhead windows, interior light fittings, indicator ears, high ratio diffs to make the bus go faster, removing perfectly serviceable Cummins and Iveco engines in order to substitute some asthmatic original type power plant for which parts are almost non existent.

And what happened in presumably the majority of cases with the old removed items? they most likely ended up in the skip.

Jesus wept.

Martin is the man. He has never let us down, LondonBus4Hire

My bus number (if any): RCL2259

I have had RM exhaust parts on the shelf for a few years now. My turnover of these is not as great as Martin D's, as there is in effect more "competition" in the south east for repairing RMs. However, many of us talk to each other. roy and I are in fairly regular contact with each other as we sometimes work together and exchange technical information and parts availability information. there's also a couple of commercial workshops in the area who know a bit about RMs but they sometimes use roy's or my services for out-of-the-ordinary problems.

I've personally turned people in the direction of others in other areas for distance reasons.

If you need one, I've got an RM silencer on the shelf at the moment, it's seen a few months service on our generator set, but has never been on a vehicle. However, to re-stock with an RM exhaust system you're now looking at well over £1000 to have sitting on the shelf for years, like we've had 2 new short half shafts in stock for a long time, and they set us back about £2k each. This is an awful lot to have tied up in stock for what is basically a one-man and one-woman business!

A tale I will reiterate which I've told on here before about the stop flag, an occasional client had a Scania or DAF engine open topper which was used a lot in Europe. It came to me for a service about 5 years ago. It had to ready "tomorrow" to go abroad again. It had an odd problem with the stop flag, no they didn't want the brakes stripped out, just adjust them and a quick safety check. Horn not working, stop flag defect, other bits noted, brakes adjusted, they didn't want a rolling road test, no time, save money.. A few months later I heard the bus was in Spain in winter, going down hill into a village. The brakes didn't seem to work, the flag dropped. Driver applied handbrake, that didn't work either. Sounded the horn approaching traffic light, that didn't work either. Luckily he didn't hit anyone or anything, bur it stopped eventually. When it arrived back with me a couple of months later having been on the rest of the European tour, I found the back brakes well out of adjustment; rollers seized; front brakes out of adjustment and linings worn out. The rear linings weren't touching the drums with the brake hard on. The accumulators needed charging, I had to change them as they wouldn't hold a charge. Wiring broken on the brake warning microswitch.

The driver told me the flag had been dropping at odd intervals throughout the journey but the owners didn't want to spend money fixing it. It wasn't for my lack of trying or giving advice.

The stop flag is there for a reason.

My bus number (if any): RML2532