ROOF

Thank you for visiting the Routemaster Owner and Operator's Forum (ROOF). Please feel free to use this forum for the mature discussion of any issues of interest and relevance to Routemaster owners. Please do not use this board to publicise your feelings about individuals, National or Local Government or TFL policy. Owners of other London bus types in service during the 1950s, 60s and 70s are also welcome to contribute to this forum.

Please note, the ROOF website no longer exists. The link from the Forum does not work anymore.  Useful information and links from the website has been posted to the Forum.

Please do not respond to abusive posts but notify ROOFmoderator 1@outlook.com.


ROOF
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
Vinyl exterior adverts

Hi all. The period repro style vinyl exterior adverts on my bus are getting very faded. I put replacement ads on the front and rear quarters, but managed to get a load of creases. I am not going to attempt the long side adverts. Is there anyone skilled /company that would fit new ones? Is there a source for obtaining suitable designs for a 1959 vehicle?

John

My bus number (if any): RM108

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

Try https://www.cjsigns.co.uk/motorsport-graphics/

CJ signs do excellent work.

My bus number (if any): RCL2559

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

I maybe should have mentioned that, if Sheffield is a long way away from you, they can come to you with no creases. It takes a real pro to apply that stuff. We learned this from experience. I suggest just give them a call. Tell them the Kindness Offensive recommended them on the ROOF Forum and say hi for me.

My bus number (if any): RCL2559

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

Are you sure those exterior adverts are vinyl? I thought Harry had them signwritten, ISTR him proudly mentioning that he had found someone to do them. Be aware some companies guard these jealously and will sue if you use one of their historic adverts without permission. Bryant and May for one. Ted Price had to jump through hoops to get permission to use British Caledonian. These designs are copyright.

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

If you are talking about Vinyl advertising CJ signs do a good job at a reasonable price. As for copyright you need to clear that with the copyright owners.You mentioned wanting to install the ads without creases, the work they did for us was excellent.

My bus number (if any): RCL2559

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

It's funny you should mention copyright. Where do we stand with adding London Transport adverts onto vehicles. Be it exterior or even the interior ceiling adverts, anyone know?

My bus number (if any): RM158 & RML2460

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

When I bought my GS back in 1969 from Tillingbourne Valley, it was generally forbidden to use the London Transport fleet name on buses that had been sold out of service. The few of us who owned old London buses at the time had to have written permission from London Transport to carry their fleet name.

I suspect that with the passage of time and the disappearance of London Transport that has been quietly forgotten about many years ago, especially with the boom in preserved ex LT buses that are around. I know the Big companies don't like their former vehicles whether preserved or not going around carrying their fleetnames.

My bus number (if any): RML2532

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

There was an issue a while back with one of the companies who had big side ads on LT buses, Pearl Assurance perhaps, whom objected to their use, so some owners used local company adverts. Others for Battersea Fun Fair etc would be OK as it no longer exists....

As far as interior ads are concerned who would worry if they are historical and not current ads? Plus, many of them were for LT and used to cover the ugly joint plates on the lighting panels.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

Back to applying vinyl for anyone who wants to do it themselves.

I always use tack reducer, it temporarily delays the adhesive on the vinyl allowing graphic repositioning & a bubble free application.
I also recommend checking out youtube as there are some great tutorials on there.

I am no professional but i have used vinyl on a manner of classic vehicles to give dashboards wood effect, or temporary cheap chrome on bumbers (using heat to stretch and shrink vinyl around curve - that takes practice).
I have also applied large sheets to walls and windows which is easier then curve but a second pair of hands is vital I think.

Below is my preferred product but others are available.
https://www.grizzlybearonline.co.uk/vinyl-application-fluid/1-rapid-tack-pro-spray.html

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

From memory we used to apply vinyls to new coaches using just soap and water it gives you a bit of leeway to reposition before you squeegee out the water from behind

My bus number (if any): RML 2747

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

Well such a good response on this forum, thanks!

The adverts on RM108 are indeed vinyl as the corners are peeling. I've heard of the soap and water technique before so I may try that on a rear quarter advert first and see how I do.

As regards copyright, I'd have thought that the use of adverts from a company that disappeared many years ago may be okay?

However, before anything else can be done, I have to get the old ones off without paint damage. I've had mention that if I park the bus in the sun on a very hot day, the vinyls will be easier to peel off?

Thanks
John

My bus number (if any): RM108

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

Getting the vinyl off without taking the paint with it will be nearly impossible.

We use vinyl ads, often all over ones, on our buses more and more now. Gone are the days of pre-printed boards screwed to the bus!

We spray water on the panel in front of where the ad is going when putting them on and fit them like wall paper pushing bubbles out to the edges with a plastic ice scraper type tool, you can also use a pin for troublesome bubbles !!

Try and get as much of the old vinyl off and then use a hairdryer to heat up the bits left, to pull them off, then clean with an acetate solution. Then repaint....

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RM 1585 and several RTs

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

As Brian says a hairdryer or hot air gun not too close to the paint and gentle scraping is usual technique . You can peel back a bit and also use brake cleaner from a squirter to dissolve the adhesive without affecting the paint but it evaporates quite quickly !

My bus number (if any): RML 2747

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

BRAKE CLEANER IS HIGHLY INFLAMMABLE do NOT get it nor its vapour near sources of heat. Setting oneself alight and suffering severe burns or even death is clearly immaterial , but should the precious bus go up in smoke then that would be a tragedy.

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

Some great advice as always but I'd always understood that using a hot air gun wasn't a good idea (for paint removal) because you can permanently distort the panels. Maybe if you are very cautious but I would have thought Graham's hairdryer option would be safer - less fierce.

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

Having taken many vinyl adverts off in years past, I`ll offer three pieces of advice:

If you are able to wait for a warm sunny day and are able to park the bus in the sun and leave it for a few hours, it is surprising just how easily vinyl will then peel away. Aim to peel evenly and slowly and not try to rush into getting the biggest possible piece off quickly. A large chunk pulled away quickly will probably take a layer of paint with it.

Do not be tempted to use a metal scraper. Not even to lift a small corner to get started. No matter how tempting it might seem, the inevitable gouges into the paintwork that you may not even notice whilst doing it will blight the appearance of the panel for ever.

Old vinyl can become brittle. If the piece being pulled slowly because of the adhesive then suddenly tears leaving you holding a small bit, consider where you may end up If you lose your balance on whatever it is you`ll be standing on. Trust me, this can easily happen. If I`m going to be working at upper deck level, I always park the bus close to the shed and put the gantry between bus and shed so that I cannot fall. I know this seems to defeat the `parking in full sun` suggestion but several hours of sun on an advert should give enough time to make a good bit of progress with advert removal even if you have to be out of the sun to stay safe.

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

As Roy says brake cleaner IS inflammable but if you are using it to dissolve the adhesive while pulling or ‘gently’ scraping the adhesive or clean up adhesive residue afterwards you wouldn’t have enough hands to hold a heat gun on the vinyl at the same time as the squirter (either or) ? - as Brian also says you only need to warm the vinyl not burn it off and damage the paint or panel - common sense ? A hot day as Neil says makes life a lot easier if you are able to wait for one to come along sadly when we sold vehicles and needed to remove vinyls it was often in the winter ! We never damaged paintwork even on vinyls that had been in for years - a good go with the polisher and cutting compound always restored it to new. I’ve seen other Operators vehicles where someone has been over zealous with a scraper and caused terrible damage sadly resulting in a very expensive respray no doubt !

My bus number (if any): RML 2747

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

Thanks all. Waiting for a hot sunny day....
John

My bus number (if any): RM108

Re: Vinyl exterior adverts

We took vinyl off many buses over the years returning from hires etc and for large areas the most effective and least likely way to get them off without stripping the paint is a wall paer steamer.

Depending on how well primed the paint was and how long it was on before the vinyl went on your are probably going to do some damage unless you are very, very careful. Steam is the best and then do small sections.