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Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

I am 100% in support of beverage carts at Mt. Hood. It will provide a meaningful boost to revenues and increase player satisfaction. People bring their own right now anyway, which this will help curtail while providing "eyes" on the course to manage any inebriation.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Soxboy
I am 100% in support of beverage carts at Mt. Hood. It will provide a meaningful boost to revenues and increase player satisfaction. People bring their own right now anyway, which this will help curtail while providing "eyes" on the course to manage any inebriation.
As Mr. Dittmer noted - this is not a money issue but a public safety issue. Local residents who live near Mount Hood complain of speeding cars coming down from the clubhouse - just imagine how bad it will get when alcoholic consumption is increased during play. Also, the clubhouse has been cited twice in 2009 and 2012 for underage drinking violations. What makes you think that 18 and 19 year olds selling alcoholic drinks from beverage carts will be able to control abuse? Also, with golf carts crisscrossing parkland and passive recreation areas - it will be an accident waiting to happen.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Without commenting (yet) on this alcohol cart issue, I simply want to confirm that you accept that at least SOME of those "speeding cars" MIGHT be coming another facility in the area!

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Geezer
Without commenting (yet) on this alcohol cart issue, I simply want to confirm that you accept that at least SOME of those "speeding cars" MIGHT be coming another facility in the area!
One could think that - but when you consider the volume of cars and activity during normal business hours of the golf course (sunrise to sunset) compared to that of the Melrose Fish & Game Club - the evidence points directly to the golf course relative to speeding and this is confirmed from the neighbors living adjacent to the golf course. But Geezer, please give us your opinion about whether you are in favor of allowing alcohol consumption on the fairways at Mount Hood during the day.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Because I do not golf, do not drink, (and therefore do not understand the desired combination of the two), do not live in the immediate area, drive as little as possible, and prefer that 'governmental agencies' not have to make restrictive "rules" for generally intelligent people, I will leave it for those more affected to opine on this matter.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Understandable, Geezer. I do like to both golf and drink. I don't think anyone would disagree this will bring welcome additional revenue. From my experience, one beverage cart over 18 holes means each group has the opportunity - maybe - to purchase drinks twice. I've never seen a cart three times during a round anywhere. Given the difficulty keeping beers cold on a hot day, that's two, maybe three, beers per person over 4 1/2 to five hours while exercising - certainly a manageable amount and unlikely to cause pandemonium on the paths nor on the streets.
Melrose has to get past this "just say no" attitude permeating every decision making process from licensing to zoning. Forget right or wrong, and it is wrong, but it's just SO costly!

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Soxboy
Understandable, Geezer. I do like to both golf and drink. I don\'t think anyone would disagree this will bring welcome additional revenue. From my experience, one beverage cart over 18 holes means each group has the opportunity - maybe - to purchase drinks twice. I\'ve never seen a cart three times during a round anywhere. Given the difficulty keeping beers cold on a hot day, that\'s two, maybe three, beers per person over 4 1/2 to five hours while exercising - certainly a manageable amount and unlikely to cause pandemonium on the paths nor on the streets.
Melrose has to get past this \"just say no\" attitude permeating every decision making process from licensing to zoning. Forget right or wrong, and it is wrong, but it\'s just SO costly!
It is so sad when people equate money as a justification for doing something. As if money should be the sole justification for doing anything in this city. If that were the case - then let's get rid of the Mount Hood Park and golf course and build more homes up there - therefore the city could take in 10's of millions of more tax dollars to spend - but the residents would be deprived of the largest green area in the city and lose our most valued "Green Jewell"! The measly $6-7,000 annual dollars the city would take in from beverage carts is a pittance of our current operating city budget(0.008%). With all due respect, Soxboy, it is never a good idea to encourage more alcohol consumption in any area of mixed use where there are children playing, people walking and hiking, and where the terrain is so rocky and hilly.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Good heavens, it's not like golfers are going to be stumbling around, vomiting all over the place, waving their johnsons at people, and driving into the ponds! Let's give adults a bit of credit, shall we?

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Geezer
Good heavens, it's not like golfers are going to be stumbling around, vomiting all over the place, waving their johnsons at people, and driving into the ponds! Let's give adults a bit of credit, shall we?
Sorry, Geezer, you have credibility in this matter since you do not even live near the golf course!

If you did - you would know these facts - (1) every time this matter is discussed at Park Commission meetings, local neighbors come out an complain about speeding coming down from the golf course and have asked the city to do something about it - which they have not, (2) there have been golf cart accidents that have occurred over the years that have damaged the carts with people injured (alcohol could be part of this problem since golfer are known to sneak alcohol onto carts, (3) the clubhouse has been cited twice in the last 10-11 years for selling alcohol to underage people - they can't even control alcohol in the clubhouse let alone being able to do this with 18-19 year olds operating beverage carts.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

John from Melrose
Geezer
Good heavens, it\'s not like golfers are going to be stumbling around, vomiting all over the place, waving their johnsons at people, and driving into the ponds! Let\'s give adults a bit of credit, shall we?
Sorry, Geezer, you have credibility in this matter since you do not even live near the golf course!

If you did - you would know these facts - (1) every time this matter is discussed at Park Commission meetings, local neighbors come out an complain about speeding coming down from the golf course and have asked the city to do something about it - which they have not, (2) there have been golf cart accidents that have occurred over the years that have damaged the carts with people injured (alcohol could be part of this problem since golfer are known to sneak alcohol onto carts, (3) the clubhouse has been cited twice in the last 10-11 years for selling alcohol to underage people - they can't even control alcohol in the clubhouse let alone being able to do this with 18-19 year olds operating beverage carts.
Typing issue in the first sentence ....I meant to say - "You do not have credibility in this matter".

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Oh NO! No credibility. What shall I do, what shall I do? How will I ever sleep again? ☹️

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Geezer
Oh NO! No credibility. What shall I do, what shall I do? How will I ever sleep again? ☹️
Why do you take my comment so much to heart, Geezer. You prefaced your original remarks on this topic as saying you do not live near the park and do not play golf at Mount Hood? You therefore lack the knowledge of what those of us who live adjacent to the park are experiencing! So what's your beef?

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

If you're implying that only "neighbors" have credibility here, I disagree. Stakeholders like club members and other regular players - the majority of whom are Melrose residents - as well as the entire city's taxpayer base contribute to Mt. Hood's success and have a voice.
This isn't "your park" sir, it is "our park."

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

‘John from Melrose’: Today? Corned Beef, of course!!

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Nicely done, Geezer. Hope you enjoyed!

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Soxboy
If you're implying that only "neighbors" have credibility here, I disagree. Stakeholders like club members and other regular players - the majority of whom are Melrose residents - as well as the entire city's taxpayer base contribute to Mt. Hood's success and have a voice.
This isn't "your park" sir, it is "our park."
Hey Soxboy! Have you taken a survey as to how many residents of Melrose who use Mount Hood are in favor if selling alcoholic beverages on the fairways at Munt Hood golf course - I doubt you have. But for those neighbors who live around the park - we have are not in favor of it - and when the Park Commission has a meeting to discuss this issue - we should up in greater numbers than those who want this change. Golf is a skill game - and most golfers just want to play golf. Plain and simple. Golfers can always have alcohol before and after they play golf. Most cities run course do NOT allow the sale of alcohol on their golf course.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

With all due respect, no neighbor anywhere - not just Melrose - ever wants anything to change in their neighborhood. That's the definition of NIMBY, right?
As for somehow morally eroding our youth, that's been Melrose's MO for opposing fun roughly ever since it incorporated.
Not that it's prescient, but I would argue that Melrose youth already drink more alcohol in that park than any golfing crowd ever could!
And, while I'm here, a couple of isolated underage servings during the first Obama administration, years ago, seems like a stretch as far as not allowing a drink cart.
People just want to enjoy a cold beer while they play, it's not an assault upon property rights, morality, human decency, or anything else. Just a beer while we play.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Soxboy
With all due respect, no neighbor anywhere - not just Melrose - ever wants anything to change in their neighborhood. That\'s the definition of NIMBY, right?
As for somehow morally eroding our youth, that\'s been Melrose\'s MO for opposing fun roughly ever since it incorporated.
Not that it\'s prescient, but I would argue that Melrose youth already drink more alcohol in that park than any golfing crowd ever could!
And, while I\'m here, a couple of isolated underage servings during the first Obama administration, years ago, seems like a stretch as far as not allowing a drink cart.
People just want to enjoy a cold beer while they play, it\'s not an assault upon property rights, morality, human decency, or anything else. Just a beer while we play.
Sorry, Soxboy, but you are way off base here! Anytime a situation is created where alcohol consumption is encourage or condoned - more drinking will occur - it is like decriminalizing drugs - once this is done - drug use increases - just a fact of life - human nature. And considering a drinking problem we have in Melrose - this is not a good thing - a terrible message to send to our kids also. Since you don't live near Mount Hood or have a family with young kids who have to deal with drunkenness and speeding up at Mount Hood.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Soxboy
With all due respect, no neighbor anywhere - not just Melrose - ever wants anything to change in their neighborhood. That's the definition of NIMBY, right?
As for somehow morally eroding our youth, that's been Melrose's MO for opposing fun roughly ever since it incorporated.
Not that it's prescient, but I would argue that Melrose youth already drink more alcohol in that park than any golfing crowd ever could!
And, while I'm here, a couple of isolated underage servings during the first Obama administration, years ago, seems like a stretch as far as not allowing a drink cart.
People just want to enjoy a cold beer while they play, it's not an assault upon property rights, morality, human decency, or anything else. Just a beer while we play.
Sorry, Soxboy, but you are way off base here! Anytime a situation is created where alcohol consumption is encourage or condoned - more drinking will occur - it is like decriminalizing drugs - once this is done - drug use increases - just a fact of life - human nature. And considering a drinking problem we have in Melrose - this is not a good thing - a terrible message to send to our kids also. Since you don't live near Mount Hood or have a family with young kids who have to deal with drunkenness and speeding up at Mount Hood.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

So, you’re a Prohibitionist? That didn’t work out real well last time we tried it!

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Soxboy
So, you’re a Prohibitionist? That didn’t work out real well last time we tried it!
So you say I am a prohibitionist - because we are asking people not to drink alcohol while playing a skill sport like golf? Because we think that golfers should only consume alcohol before or after playing golf makes us prohibitionists? I think that you have confused the absolute prohibition of alcohol during the 1920's with our current situation - a reasonable person would see the difference, Soxboy! Thanks for exaggeration - but it does not help your argument - demagoguing this issue never works to your advantage.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Your characterization of someone wanting a couple of cold beers on a golf course as a corrupting influence on our youth and a menace to our fair and noble town’s safety is the demagoguery here. On the contrary, I am the voice of reason as it’s hard to see a beverage cart being a challenge to Melrose’s civic well being.
And the city gets some much needed revenue too!

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Soxboy
Your characterization of someone wanting a couple of cold beers on a golf course as a corrupting influence on our youth and a menace to our fair and noble town’s safety is the demagoguery here. On the contrary, I am the voice of reason as it’s hard to see a beverage cart being a challenge to Melrose’s civic well being.
And the city gets some much needed revenue too!
Much needed revenue you say! The city expects to get about $7,000 annually from this activity - that is 0.008% of the total city budget for 2021.....hardly what I would call a much needed revenue stream....given that the city had a multi-million dollar surplus from last year and expect to get 8 million dollars soon from the federal government's American Rescue Plan which was enacted earlier this year - and not counting the money the city will get from the new Infrastructure Bill being discussed in Congress now. The city will be flush with federal dollars - they don't need to increase safety risks for residents living near our green spaces for a measly $7K per year! The Mayor is doing this to satisfy his special interest groups in Melrose - and he would be the first Mayor since Melrose became a town in 1850 and a city in 1900 to recommend selling and consuming alcohol on parkland - a dubious distinction at best!

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Thank you, John! and Thank you, Myron!

As a public space, citizens should not have to deal with any more drunken fools than it does already here. Mt. Hood is not a private club, and as a public park, basically, selling alcohol absolutely should be forbidden. Perhaps the mayor would like to set up a pot cart while he's at it! Maybe the mayor wants to make another few thou by having an over-the-counter drug cart, along with plenty of Mt. H-emblazoned water bottles that teens could buy to fill with vodka (that they carry with them in school).

This mayor and his craven supporters will quite literally do anything to lubricate his financial wheels, having mastered lesson #1 from his most recent predecessors.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Since I pointed out the absurdities of your corrupting influence and safety menace arguments, it now moves on to the corruption argument.

Can't say I'm a big fan of the Mayor - a little too showy with his suburban progressivism for my tastes - but I don't know how you've extrapolated a beer cart to "satisfy[ing] his special interest groups" or "lubricat[ing] his financial wheels." That's quite the stretch!

The fact is it's a single beverage cart at Mt. Hood. Not a pot cart, or a cocaine cart, or whatever else your puritanical minds can dream up. Not doling out vodka shots to teens, not fueling drunken rampages through the streets. Just a beverage cart, as seen on thousands of golf courses all across America. No, the revenue isn't going to make any real difference. It doesn't matter - it would be fun to have and it would make a little money. That's all.

As H.L. Mencken said "Puritanism Is the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Soxboy
Since I pointed out the absurdities of your corrupting influence and safety menace arguments, it now moves on to the corruption argument.

Can\'t say I\'m a big fan of the Mayor - a little too showy with his suburban progressivism for my tastes - but I don\'t know how you\'ve extrapolated a beer cart to \"satisfy[ing] his special interest groups\" or \"lubricat[ing] his financial wheels.\" That\'s quite the stretch!

The fact is it\'s a single beverage cart at Mt. Hood. Not a pot cart, or a cocaine cart, or whatever else your puritanical minds can dream up. Not doling out vodka shots to teens, not fueling drunken rampages through the streets. Just a beverage cart, as seen on thousands of golf courses all across America. No, the revenue isn\'t going to make any real difference. It doesn\'t matter - it would be fun to have and it would make a little money. That\'s all.

As H.L. Mencken said \"Puritanism Is the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy.\"
Keep the alcohol flowing.Maybe that Will make tailgating in the parking lots more fun. Mount Hood Golf Course.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Soxboy
Since I pointed out the absurdities of your corrupting influence and safety menace arguments, it now moves on to the corruption argument.

Can't say I'm a big fan of the Mayor - a little too showy with his suburban progressivism for my tastes - but I don't know how you've extrapolated a beer cart to "satisfy[ing] his special interest groups" or "lubricat[ing] his financial wheels." That's quite the stretch!

The fact is it's a single beverage cart at Mt. Hood. Not a pot cart, or a cocaine cart, or whatever else your puritanical minds can dream up. Not doling out vodka shots to teens, not fueling drunken rampages through the streets. Just a beverage cart, as seen on thousands of golf courses all across America. No, the revenue isn't going to make any real difference. It doesn't matter - it would be fun to have and it would make a little money. That's all.

As H.L. Mencken said "Puritanism Is the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy."
Thank you, Soxboy! Well said. Do people think that this will cause an increase of drunken golfers coming in from everywhere just to get loaded? Get real. People who want a beer on the course are putting them in their bags anyway if they want. Lighten up Melrose andget off your lily-white Melrose perches.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Thank you TBSports. While I disagree with, well, almost everything John and Resident have to say on this issue, he is right that the “No Fun in Melrose” crowd will show up at the hearing.
Therefore, it’s up to the rest of us to email our alder-people and Mayor to express our feelings. Please do so and, who knows, at least they’ll be made aware there is another constituency out there that takes a more non-absolutist view towards relaxing Melrose’s Victorian mindset.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

If golfers are already doing BYOB, then the rationale for having a beer cart is weakened, as potential revenues have to be netting against risk-costs of potential liability.

Re: The Sale of Alcohol on Fairways at Mount Hood Golf Course - A Bad Idea

Concerned Melrosian
If golfers are already doing BYOB, then the rationale for having a beer cart is weakened, as potential revenues have to be netting against risk-costs of potential liability.
Totally agree with you, concerned Citizen. These other idiots never had to deal with the fallout from golfers leaving the golf course and speeding through our community. Little do they understand that it you make alcohol available - people will consume it - then they go to the clubhouse - have a few more beers with the guys and they drive thorough our neighborhoods.

Little do these people know that the clubhouse had had 2 violations serving underage people in the last 10 years, having their liquor license pulled for awhile, just imagine how many may be served on the golf course when beverage cart staff are roaming the fairways trying to make an extra buck in tips! This is not only a stupid idea but dangerous for those people who live near Mount Hood.