This is the kind of outrageous, gynocentric garbage that is being forced upon our children via the public school system. Schools should be focused on teaching math, science, and literature and NOT kindness, inclusivity, empathy, social and self awareness. This is nothing short of opportunistic leftist indoctrinization being applied to our children.

How is inclusivity even remotely related to the Parkland incident? How is a school mandated 'walkout' doing anything other than teaching our children that juvinile protest is prefered behavior? How is spending 5% of the school day behaving like this in any way beneficial to our children's academic futures?

"inclusivity" ... who is being excluded?
"kindness, empathy" ... that is NOT your job. Please focus on improving my children's math skills.

You're way off on this.

Back in the 90s when I was in the Melrose school system we routinely had assemblies and activities promoting these sorts of things: "Random Act of Kindness Day"; Winthrop School's "Code of the Rose" assemblies. Heck, we even had themed lunches twice yearly in elementary school where they would teach us table manners! Things like this are nothing new.

An education is not just about doing math problems, it's about learning how to be a productive and decent human being. Preparing you for things you will encounter as you grow up. I haven't done calculus in over 10 years. Let's focus on preparing our kids for what they will actually face in life.

Micheal, you are watching the system use propaganda on our community. The walk now at the high school on March 14, 2018 at ten, is all propaganda. The use of propaganda in schools was highly prevalent long ago.

They say our legal system can indict a ham sandwich.
Well on Melrose Messages, people can argue about a ham sandwich! :wink:

It's a euphemism for taking a bite out of crime.

I'm not sure if you mean that you were a student in the 90s or an employee of the Melrose school system.
The fact that this nonsense has been going on for 20+ years is not being argued. There's no doubt that is has been. That doesn't make it any more acceptable.



No, education is about doing math problems. Learing about subjective things like 'decent' is not a matter for the school system to decide. That's the job of the parent alone. The fact that you haven't done calculus in over 10 years is not an argument. I have and I would prefer my children to be have that skill as well. Learning math will go a long way toward developing logic and reasoning skills - which they can then use to avoid being indoctrinated by the types of people who think that addressing Parkland is achieved by walking away from their obligations or by talking about inclusivity et al.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favor of adults getting together to exchange their ideas on how they think society should be run. Have at it.

But education is accomplished through the persuit of facts, truth and logic. Education is not served well by walkouts, emotions, feelings nor 'inclusivity'. And teaching children to be decent is the exclusive responsibility of the parents of that child. Any such attempts to do so by the school system is a gross over reach.

Michael, you are entitled to your opinion.

I was saying that as a student in the 90s. I was showing that it isn't a result of the current administration or the yuppies that Melrose has, etc. It's just how it has always been. My family has been in Melrose since the 20s and I haven't heard any horrible complaints about the school system over the years. We're all doing fine, but maybe we were just the type of family that went with the flow.

What I find so bizarre about this board is that so many people like to complain about things, and I get that this is a forum to discuss issues, but I see little action to change the things that people are so certain are wrong. I see the same types of people being elected to the boards and commissions that run the city and set its policies year after year. You have to realize at some point that it just might be what the majority wants and in a democracy, that is what you get.

I visit this message board to discuss issues relating to the city, not vent or rant about things.

Commission members were appointed by DOLAN.

No, School Committee members are elected.

I agree that this topic was rather hostile to begin with. I don't think the OP came here to have a discussion about whether it was a good idea or not. He wanted to lecture everyone on why his view was correct.

Committee members are elected. However, the Superintendent is appointed by the committee and superintendent appoints principals and the principals clearly endorse the decision because it is their names which appear at the bottom of the email.

Take a good look at the backgrounds of some of the people on the school committee and it becomes clear why there is a continuous and slow steady drip of leftist mentality being pushed upon children as young as five. It can't be too overt because people would start to take notice. But as is, they seem to think its more beneficial to take kids out of class for a half hour to preach "kindness, empathy and inclusivity in the school and in the community" rather than invest that time into academic skills such as math.

People can call it ranting all they want but the facts remains the facts:

The school committee has endorsed (I would argue coerce through social pressure) that children as young as five suspend their academic studies for some thirty minutes (they claim 17 but clearly it takes at least that much time in addition to orchestrate the activity) to sit in "a Kindness Community Circle" to hold a "conversation centered on promoting kindness and inclusivity in our greater community" under the guise of "support of school safety and in remembrance of the 17 students killed in Parkland"

Sitting in circles does nothing to address the Parkland incident.

Who, exactly, is not being 'included'?
What does 'inclusivity' have to do with the Parkland incident?

Sadly Joe, I think you are correct in that the majority don't mind, are oblivious to, or are simply unwilling to do anything other than accept the status quo.

I haven't brought it up before because I am only now just getting to see the problem first hand having a child who is now going through this system. I am still thinking about what, if anything, I can proactively do to effect this system.

I do believe that things have gotten much worse with regards to replacing proper education with ideology and replacing reason with sophistry. It certainly wasn't this way when I was in the school system in the late 70s and 80s.

Thanks for your civil responses. I will consider what you have written.

Michael, you have no idea how idiotic and silly you sound.

Name calling as a rebuttal. Fantastic use of reason. Thank you.

While children are allowed to have their own opinions (often that of their parents or teachers) there is a reason that the voting age is 18. Personally, I believe 21 should be the voting age, as well as the age for getting a drivers license and other "privileges".

Just wondering- How did 21 become such a special number? Why not 20 or 22? Was there a study or something decades ago and that's why they set the drinking age at 21?

Maybe even 25:laughing:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24173194

Since when did reinforcing “kindness” become “ leftist indoctrination “, lol. Anyone whose spent time around young children, and volunteering in the schools, understands that reinforcing manners, civility, and basic kindness needs to happen in the classroom. In part because a significant number of parents fail at this task. Bullying is rampant, and it affects the learning environment. Talking about inclusivity means emphasizing to children that they cannot treat people who are different than they are cruelly. That means they must show decent behavior toward everyone, including other children who are handicapped, of a different race or ethnicity, dress differently, etc. It is what prepares them for functioning in the real world, where they will need to know how to interact with an increasingly diverse workforce if they hope to have a successful career in virtually any field.

I’m not sure why this is so triggering for these two male posters, it’s apparent they haven’t spent much time around young children.

It would be nice to hear that the superintendent is adding bullying to this walk for Melrose. What Can You Do When Bullying is Downplayed at School. Despite the "Bully-Free Zone" posters that line the school You will hear...
.I didn't see it happening and I can't just take your child's word that it did.
.Kids will be kids, you know.
.This stuff just happens. It'll All blow over soon.
.Your child just needs to have a thicker skin
.The child you are accusing of bullying is an honor student and Vice President of the student Council. Are you sure your child isn't exaggerating? Then they downplayed by the very adults who are charged with keeping schoolchildren safe.Education are heroes and I thank them endlessly for their service. With that said, there are also adults who fail children and I don't know any more eloquent or sophisticated way to describe my feelings about it other than to tell you that it burns me.

I'm afraid the school district's response to bullying by kids and, especially their own staff and administrators is a lot more sinister than you describe. It ventures into the criminal. Welcome to Melrose.

THE SAD NEWS IN MELROSE SCHOOLS IS WE WON'T EVEN TAKE A MOMENT OF SILENCE FOR THE VICTIMS OF 911.

Starting with your last statement ...

You're agenda and sexism are both offensive and rediculous. I am the father of several children. I spend a great deal of time with them. So, no, it isn't apparent at all. It's just how you choose to see things due to your obvious bias.

The remainer of your post actually highlights my point completely. The fact that you don't even see the problem with your statements is amazing to me. Let me state it more clearly.

You are conflating emotion with personal liberty. They are not in any way related.

Liberty is the basic right of every individual to be who they are and to live as they see fit. Bullying is the act of coercing another individual in a way which agresses upon that individual's personal liberties. It is wrong and should be addressed in every instance. See 'non-aggression principle': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

The issue that I take is with the sophistry (which most certainly emerges from the left) which argues that failing to be kind, empathic and inclusive is in any way an aggression against someone else's personal liberty. It is not. Being disciminatory is not bullying. Being disciminatory may or may not hurt some else's feelings but that is not an aggression against their personal liberty.

Failing to make the logical distinction between the two leads to the "you can't say/think that" mentality that is so pervasive in our society and which violates everyone's personal liberties. It turns our citizenry into mindless sheep who are then easily manipulated and conditioned to accept whatever the popular masses preach because, as children, they have been taugh this invalid conflation of actual bullying and otherwise totally valid discimination.

I do not have any issue with anti-bullying policies. In fact, despite your attempts to paint me as someone who fails to appreciate it, I fully endorse such policies.

What I take issue with is the hyper-emotional and entirely invalid practice of teaching our children that if they do not fully accept everyone else's behaviors, choices, practices, etc then that is bullying. It is not.

Starting with "You're agenda"... geez, educated in Melrose perhaps?

Then "Being disciminatory may or may not hurt some else's feelings but that is not an aggression against their personal liberty."
Really? So being denied one's legitimate rights to a job, an education, etc., is NOT "against" one's "personal liberty"? How exactly does one interpolate "aggression" into all of this? So being shoved into the back of the bus or spit on or paid a fraction of what a comparable individual gets is equated with hurting someone's feelings and is somehow not a real injustice?

Yes, agenda. The statement made suggests that the person believes that the opinion of the males should be viewed differently than the other opinions.

Discriminating: making a distinction

None of what you wrote has anything to do with the argument that I have made.

I’m sure that the initial part of the comment was relative to “You’re”, which equals “You are”.

Oh yes. Duly noted. Thank you, Professor!

My agenda, lol.

“I have kids, and I spend time around them, (when I’m not at work), therefore I am an expert on child development, classroom management techniques, and early childhood education.”

And I drive a car, but that doesn’t make me a mechanic.

Kindness, empathy, and self awareness are positive character traits that should be cultivated. They are traits that will serve you well in the real world. Your argument is that your children should be able to say and do whatever they please, even if they are being hurtful and cruel to their classmates? Should they be allowed to call a black classmate a ******? Should they be allowed to make fun of a child with Downs Syndrome? How about when the tables are turned, and your child comes home crying because a classmate has been calling them fat, or stupid, or ugly? Would you just lecture your five year old about personal liberty and the sophistry of the left? After all, the other child was just expressing his sincere dislike of overweight and unattractive people, and we must preserve that child’s personal liberty to do so, right?

In simpler times, this would be called “manners”. That means that I may not agree with your religious views, lifestyle, parenting, choice of clothing, etc, but I will still treat you with kindness, civility and respect. In the classroom, it means that children cannot refuse to sit next to a child who is Muslim, or black, or handicapped because their parents tell them it’s ok to hate people who are different. They don’t have to agree with a classmates belief that Jesus was the son of God in order to share crayons and hold the door for each other. They just have to not call each other names, and try to be nice to each other. To be inclusive and empathetic, which means maybe inviting the kid who’s really shy, or who wears a yarmulke or a hijab, or has an intellectual disability, to join your game at recess.

For your children’s sake, I sincerely hope you are not the guy who starts railing at the teachers and staff about teaching “ kindness and empathy” in the classroom.

I made no such statements. Please don't quote that which I have neither said nor written. It's dishonest. You have no idea how much time I spend with my children. Futhermore, they are my children and the development of their perception of right and wrong is my responsibility and mine alone. You have some piece of paper. I am their father. Do not forget your place.



Specious.



I never argued otherwise. Where we differ is that you argue they *must* (in a different post) which is facist and denies a child of their right to develop their own critical reasoning skills required in order for them to think for themselves. I will not let you or anyone else train my children to think that they must do anything or that they must think a certain way or that must not use various words (which is thought control).



I argued no such thing. Please cite where I said such things. These are violations of the non agression principle of which I wrote earlier. They are aggressions against another and are wrong. My children are taught this and have never acted in such a way.

What I argued is that my children are taught critical thinking skills which will enable them to develop the ability to use their own free discriminatory powers to decide what they will say, what they will think and with whom they shall choose to associate with.



My child has been coerced by another child and told "If you don't play with me I will tell on you and say that you won't play with me because I'm black." On another occasion that same child very innocently said that she wished she could "dip my child in chocolate so that you could be my sister" and when my child innocently responsed "I wish I could put you in a freezer and you could be white and be my sister" it was my child who was accused of racism and the black child's family was never notified. (I regard neither as having anything to do with racism). I could go into far more serious matters of predation at the hands of other children in her school which she has experienced but suffice to say she has never come to any harm.

In the first two instances my child was instantly able to recognize the politically correct nonsense that was being levied against her and defender herself easily in both cases. In the later case she immediately came to us to address the matter. She has the ability to not be a PC victim who affraid of being called a racist because we have taught her not to listen to people like you and to, instead, use her critical thinking skills for herself to decide what is and is not acceptable. We arm our children, not with dogmatic politically correct garbage, but with respect for themselves, for their liberties and for the liberties of others.

I don't need to defend my children from being the theoretical perpetrators of the acts aggression which you imagine but I will say that my children are very well travelled, speak several languages, have worn the costumes of several cultures themselves and have friends who are from pretty much every race, numerous countries, etc.

So you can take your 'the two males here', 'when I'm not at work', and 'classroom management techniques' et al and shove them. We are all set without the public school systems PC mandates.

You mean to say this is not done every year on September 11th?

It is what it is.So you need to look at the way life is.

It's never been done at mps.

Oh, dear God, lol. So your children are international world travelers, sophisticates and polyglots, with friends from around the globe. But they are struggling socially in their Melrose public school classrooms? Could it be because their father magnifies and dramaticizes developmentally typical peer conflicts and tells them they are victims of “PC culture?” Or shows contempt for their female teacher with complaints about “gynocentric” policies on empathy and kindness?

Please, spare me your tales of kindergarten injustice and drama. Oh, the horror! Another child wanted to play with your child so badly, she tried to coerce your child with threats of adult involvement! That happens about 10 dozen times a day in a typical early elementary classroom.

It sounds to me like the public schools will never be a good fit for you and your family. Perhaps you should consider home schooling. Or maybe you could get together with some fellow Libertarians and start your own home school group, whien your not reading Ayn Rand or complaining about government overreach.

You must be a frustrated Melrose teacher that should of got out of teaching and never got tenure.

First, let me apologize for any unnecessary aggressiveness in my previous post. I stand by everything that I have previously voice but offer a retraction of the 'stuff it' comment. I do this with the hopes that I can convince you and others to truely reflect upon the position that you have voice over your previous few comments. I will not bother to respond further to this thread unless there is a worthwhile question or comment to respond to. With that said I offer this:

You enter the argument claiming that we should all practice kindness, empathy and inclusivity. You then challenge me with what I should do if it were my child. And when I offer evidence that this has in fact happened you offer no empathy. Shall I assume that you mean that it is horrible when a child comes home crying unless it is my child?



Do you honestly not understand my point? A child has been taught to weaponize her race and to characterize herself as a victim. What practices do you think have lead to this behavior? Do you, in all actually honesty, not understand the point being made?




No, as I wrote, my child has not struggled socially in the classroom. Quite the opposite. As I have clearly stated it is precisely because we have taught her to recognize sophistry that she is able to defend herself against it.



Shall we assume that the same opportunities are not available for people who disagree agree with your personal opinion. Say, for instance, Libertarians? Apparently so ...



Moreover, I am (as you so deftly pointed out) busy working during the day. You know, earning money and paying taxes in order to fund my children's guaranteed primary school educations. So no thanks. I'll just insist that the state fulfill its end of the contract.



Again ... straw man. I have not voiced any contempt for teachers nor for women. I have claimed only that a murder has been opportunistically exploited to preach propaganda to our youngest children. I have NOT disparaged women nor teachers. The facts are that primary education in the US has been almost 90% female teachers for many decades.

Definition "gynocentric": dominated by or emphasizing feminine interests or a feminine point of view

What word shall I use to define the many decades long influence of female lead dominance upon our education system ... Androcentric? My use of the word gynocentric is accurate.

You, in contrast, introduced this as your first contribution to the conversation:



Now, please revisit the exact dialog exchanged and consider who is the sexist here. I have invested time to select my words with distinction and with precision. I have presented exactly what I mean. Have you?

Please, with all sincerity, go back and examine what you have preached in this thread vs what you have professed in this thread.

- Michael

Michael, you seem like a hoot. What a fun guy! I bet you are the life of any party you go to. :face_with_rolling_eyes:

There is a quote in Big Lebowski: "You're not wrong, Walter....you're just an a$$hole". I'd have to modify it a bit for you, though: "You ARE wrong, Michael... and you are an a$$hole, too"

I really appreciated your posts, and the time you took to explain your thinking. It is unfortunate that many people are unable to have any sort of dialogue around the issues you presented. They are real issues, as much as others might want to dismiss them. I have been a public school teacher for over 30 years (not in Melrose), and I can attest to the inclination of many, many teachers to push their political views on impressionable students, and almost always do it under the guise of "inclusivity". I rarely voice my opinion, because I have decided that the best I can do for my students is to know my content, prepare and differentiate curriculum for my wide range of students, shut my door, and teach. I "teach" kindness and empathy by actually being kind and empathic in my work with kids- I don't talk politics, because I don't believe my job requires it, and I don't believe my students would benefit from knowing my political views.
Recently, I did share some of my views when the administration was "planning" for the National Walkout Day, and I was asked by my superintendent what I thought. We spoke for quite some time about the role of the adults in this so-called student-led effort, and how we were going to address future political issues that might come up. I expressed great concern about how this was going to play out in the middle and elementary schools. We do quite a bit of "social and emotional" curriculum work with kids, and I told the superintendent that we already do a good job in this area, and that I did not think kids in these lower grades grasp the complex nature of gun laws, so why were we telling them how to think about these issues? This is not our job. We need to keep kids safe, but we don't need to decide for them what political viewpoint they need to have with regard to school safety. I expressed concern that this may set some sort of precedent for future political activism. Our superintendent had heard a lot from the left-leaning teachers, but was open to hearing other opinions. In the end, it was decided that this would not be an organized, school-sanctioned event at the middle or elementary schools. They did have a plan in place for the high school, but then there was a snow day, and it never happened. I guess the students did not feel as strongly as many of the teachers assumed they felt, because it wasn't even rescheduled, and as far as I know, there has been no further talk about it.
In my experience, forcing kids to include everyone all the time and in every circumstance does not serve them well. I think it is helpful to try to get kids to think about actions and consequences instead. But, I also recognize there are unexpected social issues that come up every day in the classroom. It is nice when faculty can discuss issues openly, focus on individual students, and keep broad generalizations out of it. As I said, I think the issues you presented are real, and not always easy to address.
BTW, I would much rather talk to you at a party than talk to "Let's Hang". There is a problem when you have to copy lines from the Big Lebowski just to insult someone.

Poor Mikey, he just wants to be the Sean Hannity of Melrose. Le him live the dream in his mind. It makes him feel good about himself.

While you and Michael do your libertarian circle jerk at the party. Take notice of how many people leave your orbit to "go get a drink" or see someone they have to say hi to and never come back. Types like you are exhausting.

So predictable- all venom and no substance.

What substance do I owe these two mutts? They are arguing AGAINST KINDNESS being emphasized in school. I think that argument is won prima facie. They are just sticking to their guns on it for some reason.

Can you end this string? I will summarize: Some people want schools to explicitly teach tolerance and inclusivity, and they are fine with using classroom time to do so. Others think that schools have gone overboard in teaching that you can never exclude anyone for any reason, and they don't want it taught during school time.
Michael is on one end and Let's Hang is on the other. Yippee.
Do you think either of you is going to "win" this argument? Is there anything either of you can say that would make the other person agree with you? At least the "To Michael" guy was trying to see both sides, sort of.
Anyway, the name-calling really seems unwarranted. Why insult someone for disagreeing with you? I mean, what is the point?

Hello Joe, I strongly disagree with you on this. We are raising a bunch of wimps with no skills whatsoever. If you don't believe me look at 75% of all college students, they're all SJW snowflakes, lacking any skills and they are all fighting against stuff that doesn't even exist!!! Education is my number one priority with my kids. In fact it's my only priority. Being nice won't get you very far in life. To be quite frank, I don't care if i hurt someones feeling while getting to the top. Your life is your problem and if being an uneducated, underpaid, skilless, waste of life is what you want for yourself and everyone else, keep thinking that being a decent person will get you places.

Because, it won't. :)