MYA,

It is fascinating to learn that our little town of Gouyave had all the ingredients of stratification and variability of a socially complex community, albeit on a much smaller scale than most others in the Caribbean. Indeed we are fortunate to have been exposed to the richness of this culture, enough so, that we can now reflect and reminisce about our experience and share it with others now that we are capable of understanding it a bit better.

Your drawing to our attention yet another fraternity that had existed in our community, only adds to our understanding of the social diversity of our town folks, notwithstanding their intended purpose and outcome. The fact that they all had contributed to making Gouyave what it was, is further exemplified by the contributory efforts of all Gouyave’s children in making our town what it now is and could be.
The inquisitive minds among us who are now armed with the ability to perform a little research, can recall from memory and make references to get a better understanding of the context in which circumstances and happenings should be placed. In this regard I can see the necessity to make further inquiries into the intricacies of our culture, the likes of which you have done to the benefit of us all.

And as you had mentioned the "Rosicrucian Order", it brought back to mind, some vague memories of my hearing 'Rosi' being mentioned in Gouyave but without any relevance as to its practice or the identity of its followers. However, I do recall of another celestial reference, which may fall in line with our discussion.

It was the books of L. W. de Laurence, (a noted character of ill repute in his time) whose controversial writings came under scrutiny in the US but was widely adopted among his followers in our Caribbean Culture. One of his more noted books, labelled "The Obeah Bible" and those of his entire publishing company was banned under the importation laws of Jamaica in violation of the “indecent and obscene prints” statute. Specifically, the ban made mention to “All publications of de Laurence Scott and Company of Chicago in the United States of America relating to divination, magic, cultism or supernatural arts”.(see http://www.jacustoms.gov.jm/home_template.php?page=prohibited&group_id=1).

As noted below in this preamble to his work in 11915, the Author began with the question,

"What are the secrets of Obeah? This Caribbean magical tradition strikes fear into the hearts of many. Now at last its secrets are revealed. The Obeah Bible was originally published as The Great Book of Magical Art, Hindu Magic and East Indian Occultism in 1898 by L.W. de Laurence…... The Great Book became an influential text in the practice of certain African-derived magic systems, including hoodoo, Voodoo and Obeah. The Great Book, along with all other books published by the De Laurence Company, remain banned in Jamaica due to strong associations with Obeah practice. This has earned The Great Book its nickname The Obeah Bible."
It was probably for the very same concerns that generated your questions below. But again, in order to emphasize our good fortune, we can now read all of them without any fear of being labeled practitioners and determine for ourselves if there were any truth to folks like de Laurence’s claims and further challenge the source and knowledge his Obeah claims.

So when you asked,

>>>>>….Should all this knowledge be made available without restriction?....<<<<<
I have always maintained the opinion that the decision of "choice" is an inalienable right of man, (the same as the oxygen he breathes) and should not be impeded in any way as long as we are given free access to the information necessary to make that decision. In the context of this question I would say, " ’WE! the people’ ought to know, exactly what the authorities do not wish for us to know, so we can make an informed and conscious decision as to whether we should know it or not". To do otherwise, is to limit that knowledge to the very few (those making the decisions) thus creating a breeding ground for perpetual ignorance; a prescription for subjugation of the mind.

So I would answer with an emphatic "yes!" to the first part of your question.

Now as to the second part,

>>>>>>….Should there be all this secrecy?<<<<

Conversely, and again IMHO, there is an inherent danger in the practice of secrecy, in that it carries the underpinning of possible corruption and in defiance of established laws for the sole purpose of benefiting the few. It establishes an atmosphere where the total disregard for justice becomes primary in the practice of territoriality for those in its inner circle, hence circumventing the law in order to provide aid and comfort to themselves.
Therefore I would conclude with an emphatic "no!" to this second part.

And when you ask again,

>>>>>>>.....Did the fraternities believe that the average person would not be able to handle or understand the knowledge or that it would cause problems with the established Church teachings? <<<<<<<<

I do not believe that fraternities like the Foresters and Mechanics were designed to emphasize so much as an appeal to the celestial powers. I think it was more or less a secret society designed to provide protection and favors to its members within the established order of government. Contra wise, I could have seen those of de Laurence and Christian Rosenkreuz’s Rosicrucian Order as influencing the establishment of the church orthodoxy by posing more direct challenges to its doctrine of Christianity’s exclusive belief only in their higher order; the purpose and intention notwithstanding.

VJL

Vernon, I have a dumb question Why does the masons have their own rituals when one of their members die. These rituals take forever to finish before the families can have access to their loved one. What do they do to the dead? I know my father was a priest or leader in these religions in new York and grenada. Every time I used to ask him about the secrecy, he used to tell me "join and you will find out". I was scared to join because of the noise that we used to hear in the mechanic lodge during the meeting. When my father died the members had his body for three hours in the mechanic lodge. Hope it was for a good cause. Still being curious.

Sister Merle,

I was not aware of this practice by the Free Mason's. It must have been some sought of a ceremoious ritual which was once again secret and away from the public eyes.

what is interesting though is the willingness of the non-believers to surrender the deceased body of their love-ones to the authoritative body of the Masons to perform that ritual.

Do you know if arrangements/agreements had to be made by its living members in order for that their bodies can be surrendered to them?

Again, the secretive nature of this fraternity will always create speculations.

Vernon,
On the questions posed and addressed above I cannot say that I don’t agree that information should be made available and that persons should be given the opportunity to weigh the information and make their own decisions. This is idealistically true and would seem to be the answer to the world’s big mysteries. There has always been the theory that the Vatican and the Fraternities are in possession of secret information and that they are deliberately not making it available to the masses this leads to the obvious question which is; should that information be made accessible to all. Now many have stated that the answer to that is a resounding yes and I would agree with that notion. My argument is not that the information should be made accessible but how it is made available.

I would like to go back a bit as my contention is based on the way the Avatars and teachers, and that includes the Master Jesus, taught. There was an incredible amount of information provided to followers but not directly as one would imagine and not in a way that would result in information overload or create a premise for doubt. These teachers used parables or stories that embodied the concepts of their teaching and the most interesting thing is that the parables revealed it’s meaning to the listeners at the level of their readiness to receive it. As one studies and grows in we find that the same parable reveals more of its meaning thus not giving you more that you can handle. So why not just come out with the “truth” instead of playing all this games? I guess the next question would be what is “truth”. This should give us an insight into the approach used and to the to the question since we can only see things within the experience of our own reality. The genius of the masters was to hide the secrets in plain sight.

Our African ancestors and religions had and still have tremendous knowledge that even modern science is just beginning to get a glimpse about and would give anything to get possession of with the sole intention to profit by it an not necessarily to be used for the benefit of humankind. An example here is that of a drug that can render the human body in state of suspended animation where the person is completely aware of events but the bodily activity is imperceptible to normal signs of life detection methods and in many cases persons have been buried or woke up just before being buried due to intentional or accidental exposure. Think of the value of this drug in anesthesiology, but the practitioners of the “Arts” are sworn to keep it a secret and have done so. The knowledge of this secret drug has been shown to go back hundreds or even thousands of years and how deceptive attempts by the so-called civilized nations have been made to get that information. A movie on this was made and could be suggested viewing the title is “The serpent and the rainbow”-based on a true story. We have seen mention in Romeo and Juliet, cases of Zombie creations, and other times in history and in present times especially in Japan where a certain culinary delicacy if improperly prepared can cause this condition. I wonder if the cure for cancer is not already known and is just waiting for the right time to immerge.

We should not walk away from our ancestral heritage as there might be more to it that meets the eye and don’t call it superstition until you look into it.

MYA,

A well balanced response if I may say so. One that recognizes the pitfalls of secrecy while being mindful
of the need for openess in any society. In retrospect and upon revisiting the sentiments expresse in my response to you, I can certainly understand exercising some level of prudence in the dissemination of information, particularly to the public.

The perceived secrecy by the government behind the  muched talked about Area 54 and the goings-on there comes to mind. I must confess that I take a keen interest in documentaries on extraterrestrial beings and the fascination behind the anthropological discussions and discoveries. My last preoccupation being that of Stone Hedge in Wiltshire, England was preceded by several others to numerous to mention, all in my desire to understand from whence we came.

I am also of the belief that some beigns on this earth are not "human" and that WE could be the on-going continuation of an experimental project controlled by another being.  Now I wonder if our government knows of this and has proof , would I want it to be confirmed in the intetest of openess and truth telling?

Inasmuch as you were inclined to agree with me earlier, Would you want to know if indeed there were aliens walking among us?

VJL

Vernon, I can remember as a young boy Sir Eric Gairy took Grenada to the world stage with a talk on UFO at the UN and pushed for member states involvement in the investigation and sharing of information on this issue of UFO sighting and research, which was treated almost with a degree of mockery in Grenada and from other representatives at the conference in 1978. He stated that he has been addressing this topic since 1975 to the assembly and he was persistent on this matter not being swept under the proverbial rug because I feel that he refused to be looked down at by the big boys even though Grenada was a minuscule country both in size and economy. This problem here is that Grenada was viewed as a nation that should be concerned with what is going to be on the plate the next day and not with such universal matters. Our illustrious Prime Minister was more than just a politician, he was also a practitioner of the Mystical Arts, and it was stated that he was a Rosicrucian. He was known to associate with Obeah practitioners and Baptist Religion. He was a man of “High Science”.

However, to stay with the topic of UFO’s and the possibility of their existence I would like to say that I find it hard to believe that a universe as vast is home to just us humans on a relatively small planet. Nature is famous for high efficiency and it would seem a gross departure from that universal principle, which as we know is not possible, so one would have to conclude that there is a larger plan active here. I must say that I believe that there is a strong argument for the existence of extraterrestrial life within the Universe and the argument can stretch into the possibility of an existing bloodline still flowing today as I sight your position. I can forward a simple debate on this by sighting the Bible story:

Genesis 6:4 (Original KJV):
There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that,
when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and
they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which
were of old, men of renown.

Now if that is so then one has to believe that decedents would exist even today and one would say they are among us. Were these “sons of god” viewed as such or were they Aliens that landed and integrated with humans?

Here again I would look another Biblical reference:

Ezekiel 1
“4 Then I looked, and behold, a whirlwind was coming out of the north, a great cloud with raging fire engulfing itself; and brightness was all around it and radiating out of its midst like the color of amber, out of the midst of the fire. 5 Also from within it came the likeness of four living creatures. And this was their appearance: they had the likeness of a man. 6 Each one had four faces, and each one had four wings. 7 Their legs were straight, and the soles of their feet were like the soles of calves’ feet. They sparkled like the color of burnished bronze. 8 The hands of a man were under their wings on their four sides; and each of the four had faces and wings. 9 Their wings touched one another. The creatures did not turn when they went, but each one went straight forward.”

Now lets look at this and remove the fantasy description and we are hard pressed not to see a vision that much resembles a spaceship that might have landed. This is information that has been available for an awful long time but again interpretation is the key.

With reference to the Area 54 there have been a number of images of purported Alien bodies recovered from crash landings that were kept there in secret. I don’t know and I can say not too many people know anything about that area. I can say that anything could have been going on in that area and attention diverted by shifting the attention to the issue UFO research. Could the deformed bodies be the result of genetic manipulation or failed cloning experiments? Would it not be better for the public to believe that it is UFO rather than discovering hideous human experiments that might inspire outrage? The Germans were already advanced in these studies and were bent on creating a super race and this same scientist were then integrated with scientist in the UK and US and USSR after Hitler’s defeat so is it possible that they brought their interest with them.

We will have to keep researching the topic and make conclusions based on information from as many sources as possible and the key is to keep an open mind.

Additions reading: : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MegsssaC-A
http://exopolitics.blogs.com/exopolitics/2008/03/ufo-digest-sir.html
http://www.openminds.tv/british-derail-un-ufo-642/8842

Sir Eric Gairy's speech to the UN 1978 addressing the universal issue of UFO's. This relates to the previous article.

Place in browser:

www.thegrenadarevolutiononline.com/gairy12oct1978.html

MYA,

Thank you for sharing this speech with the board. It brought sense of notoriety to this discussion, albeit more so of a political context.

Given its significance at the time, the message had been lost. It had conjured up more negative connotation towards its delivery by E.M.G. because some had viewed it as a diversion from reality. Others saw it as a missed opportunity on Gairy's part to market our country in a more positive light on the world stage and to promote solutions to the more immediate problems we were facing.
In fact, this speech was the proverbial "nail in his coffin" but one which later, had given full employment to the Undertaker. It had marked the end of his reign and the beginning of what some had considered to be the most tumultous period in our post colonial history hence no one remembered the contents of that speech.

This however would have to be a discussion for another day but a reflection of History nevertheless.

VJL

Vernon, I believe the arrangements were made by the members while they are/were living. I have never known of any family members who disapprove these proceedings. Did you know when we were growing up in gouyave the mechanics and the foresters used to wear white gloves and a long sword every time they have a function or a funeral. They used to stand guard in front and around the building. I know some of the members are reading this article/articles. Can someone tell me why?

From time immemorial we have tried to probe the inner workings of the “secret” Fraternities that have existed in society but to no avail because even if the truth or most of the truth is known it will not be accepted because it does not equate to the mystique and mystery that has surrounded these bodies. This is true when it comes to the question about the ritual performed when a member of a certain Fraternity or Church goes through transition or death. There is nothing that is unusual or uncommon more so that any other ritual that is performed within the society and we know that like with funerals and funeral rites it is vital for bringing about closure to the relatives and a sense of reality, a reaffirming of the faith if you will, to the living that this passing or transition is a normal course of life.

I will suggest that when a member of a fraternity such as the Masons or any of the afore mentioned Fraternities undergoes transition it is usually by a request made by the deceased and a common understanding with the family that the organization would do a funeral ritual which is then usually followed by a regular Denominational funeral depending of the persons persuasion. We must remember that many of the Fraternity brothers and sisters are also members of the standard Denominations within the community. I think it important to state here also that The Masons, Rosicrucian (AMORC), Mechanics or Forrester are not considered Religions and should not be mistaken as such. Now I am sure that we all have been to a funeral at least once and we know that it can be up to or longer than an hour in duration and we have other forms of rituals that are performed almost immediately after death and with less fanfare. Each group has justifications for their form of final passage and each may object to the other forms that exist with or without reason but the fact is that there is always a form of final passage and it is vital to bring about a sense of closure through the celebrations of ones life or mourning because of the passing.