Anyone know the number of the last RM or RML to be overhauled at Aldenham? I know RM 6 was the last to change its body 9/84, but after that buses kept he body they went in with. Last I can find were RMs 107 and 1946 in 10/85 leaving 1/86. Thanks

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585, M 961, M 271 and several RTs

Been told by John Marshall that it was probably RM 1832 that left Aldenham 7/4/86, as a WASP. WASP (Works Annual Service Programme) was something that Chiswick dreamed up to try and keep some maintenance/overhaul work at Aldenham.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585, M 961, M 271 and several RTs

Amazing what info just happens to be at hand......
Seeing your post Brian jogged my memory that somewhere I might just have kept a few notes/lists regarding the last Routemaster overhauls. And a rummage in a cupboard produced a result! Taken from the `works intake` programme I have a list of bonnet numbers and dates from late 1985. Of course this isn`t a list of out-shopping dates - we have to guess these but non-dismount overhauls took roughly six weeks. So allowing for the Christmas shut down some of the last numbers on the intake list probably didn`t re-appear on the street until the early Spring of 1986. I can`t recall exactly when Aldenham overhauls stopped. Would there have been a further `intake` list covering early 1986? If not, RML 2658 is the last on my list with an intake date of Jan 1 1986 - but that seems a bit odd as I don`t think anything would have moved on a Bank Holiday.

So in case this info is something that`s never previously been available and is possibly deserving of recording as an interesting part of Routemaster history, here is the list starting on Oct 14 1985:

14/10 2599
15/10 1942
18/10 2739
21/10 202
22/10 2622
24/10 2667
25/10 1818
28/10 2707
30/10 1722
01/11 2621
04/11 2704
05/11 2662
07/11 2701
08/11 1745
11/11 2039
12/11 2729
14/11 2299
15/11 1701
18/11 2626
21/11 2747
22/11 1832
26/11 1836
27/11 2376
28/11 2730
02/12 1838
03/12 2673
05/12 2755
09/12 2709
10/12 1935
11/12 881
12/12 2272
13/12 1803
16/12 2044
17/12 2728
18/12 2723
19/12 2057
01/01 2658


The WASP programme was the culmination of the GASP (Garage Annual Service programme) which basically prepared buses for their FFD (Freedom From Defect) certificates (or MOT in non-LT speak)in three consecutive years after which an Aldenham overhaul (WASP) happened. This was how the previous 64 week rota maintenance system was replaced by a 48 week rota from June 1981 to coincide with the opening of LT`s own test stations - one in each district. I can remember how the upheaval in procedures to pass smoothly from the old system to the new one wasn`t well received at Mortlake despite having so few buses to deal with compared to every other garage. I`m sure a lot of the grumbles were just a vocal resistance to a change to a long standing system. But it was surely a logical change - possibly overdue. After all, we accept a yearly MOT as a convenient date to remember. Having an MOT every 64 weeks would seem a bit daft. And in June 1981, RM 1325 was the first Mortlake bus to convert to the new GASP system. It went on to have a second GASP in 1982, and a third in 1983. Unfortunately it never made it to a WASP in 1984 being withdrawn on FFD expiry in June. After a few weeks at the Sales Department it was sold to PVS on 5/9/84.

Thanks for the info Neil, been through the Rolling Stock records and a few of the buses you list are not shown as overhauled.
These are RML 881, RMs 1701, 1772, 1803, 1838, 1935, 2039, 2044, 2057.
RMLs 2272, 2658, 2673, 2729, 2723, 2730, 2747 and 2755. There is no information on RML 2728.

Some of these buses were sold in early 1986.

Missing from your list are RM 599 and RML 2717.

I have the dates the others left the Works and RM 1832 is certainly the last one out of the gate 7th April 1986.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585, M 961, M 271 and several RTs

Got to admit to a couple of mistakes I made in that list. 2599 should have been 599 and 2747 should have been 2717.

Interesting that my own records stop after RML2376 on 27 Nov and all those that you say didn`t get overhauled are listed from Nov 28 onwards - with the exception of some RMs which were probably deemed surplus to requirements. Do we assume then that intake for overhaul stopped with 2376? I don`t have another intake list to follow the one I copied from last night so I`m guessing that must have been the last such list and even then it wasn`t followed right through. Would you say that overhaul intakes stopped about then?

Some of the buses on the list - such as 1832 - spent a vast amount of time in works. How things changed from fifteen working day turn-arounds. We had one of the last overhauled RM`s delivered to Stamford Brook at the end of December 1985. It was RM 138 and the standard was noticeably inferior. It also came with a cab seat upholstered in a grey/black moquette.

I should have known 1803 wasn`t overhauled. It was also a Stamford Brook bus and I`m sure it went to Scotland when withdrawn. Don`t think I ever had a traffic disrupting breakdown quite as bad as the evening rush hour when 1803 died as I turned off Hammersmith Broadway into King Street and I couldn`t drift it into the kerb. We finished up in the middle of the road opposite a parked car with just inches for other buses to squeeze by. The Broadway came to a standstill and the running shift guys arrived on foot having left their bus by the Met station because of the gridlock!

Hi Neil ,what wonderfull info re the last Routemaster overhauls,speaking of wonderful I was down in Dorset on Friday and was very suprised when I went to a aircraft hanger with my friend Rodger Brown,there were some very intresting buses there and outside of the hangers Rodger's two 1959 stock underground carridges.It realy made my weekend I can tell you.

My bus number (if any): none yet!

Hi Jim

Hopefully you noticed that one bus in that shed does at least look as if it`s being looked after and is considerably cleaner than the others! Even if the interior does look like a work in progress. Another few hours spent on it today.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585, M 961, M 271 and several RTs

Hi Neil ,indeed I did notice the work in progress on the inside of the showbus RM , but the other RM there (the non-psv) has lovely panel's and paintjob and the postwar roofbox RT look's very tidy aswell.

My bus number (if any): none yet!

According to Ken Blacker's Routemaster book the last 'proper overhaul' with full separation of frames from body was RML 2760 which returned it to original body and frames 5th Nov 1982. ( with the assumption it would pass to the museum within the decade)
The final RM being 198 on 28th June 1984 but they later just swapped bodies with RM 6 and 192 in October 1984. He also has RML 2376 listed as the last overhauled bus entering on 27th Nov 85 but not completed till March 86.
Neils list fill in what K B left out.

Hi Mark

That`s useful to have another source confirming that RML 2376 was the last overhaul intake bus on Nov 27 1985. So it explains why the records I kept stopped then but not why the intake programme was originally scheduled to go on for a while longer. I wonder what the reason was for that. Could it be that when the programme commencing Oct 14 was compiled by Rolling Stock (probably in September) the date of Aldenham`s closure had not been decided? Or had the closure date been fixed and that programme deemed to be within the capabilities of the remaining timescale? Why then did the last fourteen buses not get done? Was the closure date brought forward? Or was there a realisation that the significantly increased downtime for each bus as a non-dismount overhaul would cause the original closure date to be missed?

The downtime that you mention for 2376 and that found by Brian in respect of 1832 just seems ludicrous compared to the efficient flow-line process involving body lifts that Aldenham was set up for. This vastly extended time in works would have been unsurprising if it was a new type of bus incompatible with the original system but for a vehicle used to passing quickly through well planned specialised systems it seems to make a mockery of all those years of quick turn arounds. Whilst looking through various bits of paper kept from those times I found a copy of the memo from the Works Manager instructing the identity change to be actioned on RM 6 and 192. It`s dated July 12 1984. RM 6 arrived at Stamford Brook from Aldenham in early October so some twelve months or more before the last Routemaster intakes finished, overhauls were taking up to three months compared to the three week timescale that had been achieved for so many years. It`s obvious that the throughput of Routemasters would be seriously compromised by taking so long but was that part of a plan at that time to oust them by the late 1980`s or was it an excuse to justify closure of Aldenham on the grounds that it couldn`t keep up with the volume of work? The more I think about it the harder it becomes to understand why great efficiency gave way to great inefficiency.

The short answer Neil is it was decided in October 1985 to stop overhauling buses. Although Aldenham closed over a year later in November 1986, plans had been afoot since 1984 to restructure the bus workshops including stopping dismounted overhauls and plans must have been afoot for the transfer to Chiswick of the paint line and accident repair facilities. In 1984 the RMs were the only buses using the High Bay, all the others were non dismounts using the old Chassis Line area if I remember correctly.

The transfer Of Aldenham's remaining work involved a massive investment at Chiswick to make room for it. This involved the displacement of the Miscellaneous Vehicle Shop and I think the Wood Mill. The roof of the Works block at Chiswick was also renewed at an enormous cost, all in time to be sold off to Front Source.

When researching the dates of RM overhauls, I also noticed that a number of Metrobuses were being overhauled by MCW at that time. Certainly the last time I went up there the staff numbers had been reduced by a massive amount, lots taking the chance to get out to other jobs in the garages or leave LT altogether.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RMC 1458 RM 1585, M 961, M 271 and several RTs

So if it was decided in October 1985 to stop overhauls that would probably explain why an intake programme already planned was then shortened. I still think it was madness to abandon Aldenham in favour of a massive spend at Chiswick for such a short life there and to incur the costs associated with taking buses all over the UK for outside party overhauls and repaints. The chassis line was used to set up the stilts for RM overhauls and I`m sure that`s where RM`s 6 and 192 were when I took pictures of them. I`ll try to get those digitalised and post on here. One shot presently away for digitalising is of RM 1288 having its staircase and platform moved to the offside. I`ll put that on the forum soon.

Resurrecting an old thread,
I have just had to look up some RM Records.
RML 2760 cannot have been the last dismounted RM overhaul.
It appears to have gone, presumably into the Works Float in Aldenham in January 1982 and re-appeared in November 1982.
Perhaps this was the last stock number in the Works Float?

It appears dismount overhauls continued well into 1983. RMs 1962, 1963, 1970 2001 and 2005 all left Aldenham in October 1983 with different bodies than which they arrived, so these must have been dismounted.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RM 1585, RML 2667 and several RTs

Dismount overhauls were still happening well into 1983. The last non-showbus RM with gold transfers (1128) was one such in that Summer but then there was an overlap of dismounts and non-dismounts with October 1983 being the last month when any quantity of dismounts were out-shopped. After that, everything that came out doesn`t appear to have involved a body lift.

However, and I don`t have dates to hand, I think there may have been a few buses that actually left Aldenham in early November having been a dismount overhaul. Try RM`s 14, 238 and 1005........

Surprisingly - on two counts - ex Mortlake Leylands 1341 and 1378 which really should have been withdrawn were both overhauled in the Summer of 1983. Probably these were the last two to be body lifted and reunited with their running units as was the case with all Mortlake RM`s that were in a special category due to the high pressure water filling system fitted. But this is particularly bizarre because both buses were taken for overhaul after Mortlake closed so there really wasn`t any need to dismount and return to the same `chassis` as the unique water filling system couldn`t be used again anyway.

I have a chronological list of all intakes from late Summer 1983 through to 1985 - and those that were intended to go in but didn`t when the Routemaster overhaul programme ceased. The list also includes the twenty RM`s that were overhauled by outside contractors.

My bus number (if any): RM 1563

I'd like to see a list of RMs overhauled away from Aldenham, Neil. Who did them?

Maybe RSE had the wrong details for those Mortlake RMs they certainly sent a few AEC engined buses to Norths which were supposed to be Leyland engined.

Research in the the James Prince body swaps book has found :-_

Last body changes involved RML 2269 and 2536 both leaving Aldenham in March 1984 with different bodies.

The last RM to be lifted was RM 198 with B155 and that was in March 1984.

There was no body change RM 198 left with B155 perhaps underfloor work on this much older body made a lift more necessary.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RM 1585, RML 2667 and several RTs

The list I have is of the last six hundred or so RM / RML overhauls starting from around October 1983 when it looked as if non-dismounts would be the way ahead. The bonnet numbers were taken from the overhaul intake bulletins so it`s a list of Routemasters only in chronological order - separated out from all the other types being summoned to Aldenham. It doesn`t have intake or out-shopping dates but you would have these anyway. In among the bonnet numbers around late 1983 / early 1984 are twenty that I marked with an asterisk as these went to outside contractors. I can`t find the notes relevant to which contractors but Ian`s excellent Bus Stop site does have this info in respect of most of the vehicles concerned. ECW at Lowestoft took several. Most of the buses done by outside contractors came back to LT at Turnham Green to have a pre-service inspection. I can email to you the entire listings or just those done outside London.

The two RML`s you mentioned actually swapped bodies but it seems very strange why this was done so long after dismounts seemed to have stopped. RM 2127 looks to be another dismount and body swap early in 1984.

Also odd is reference to RM 198 being lifted and re-united with the same body. Could that be for a B Frame change if, having begun the overhaul process, a defect was observed following an underside clean?

I would be interested in your opinion regarding the cover photo of the Body Swaps book. It shows two RM`s at Stratford (426 and 641) in either 1965 or 1966. Both have the `bonnet badge` type of radiator grille as would be expected pre RM 1662 but one has a chrome strip in the middle of the grille and the other one doesn`t. We went to a lot of trouble to get 1563 correct at Mortlake when it went back into `retro` livery and had an old style grille made without the centre chrome strip. It ran in service with this for a year or more. Then, and I really can`t recall on what basis, we changed it for an old style grille with a chrome strip and it ran with that until it was withdrawn - and still has it now. Something obviously influenced our thinking and though I`ve known many people say that the centre chrome strip grille never happened in conjunction with a bonnet badge, the cover picture of the Body Swaps book clearly proves that it did.

My bus number (if any): RM 1563

I believe 1563 would be correct as it entered service without the stainless centre strip. They appear to have been a short lived issue starting around RM 1600 (with bonnet badge still in place)

I have RM 1662 down as the first to have the triangular badge as RMF 1254 however, pictorial evidence suggests RM 1700 or thereabouts was the first delivered with the triangular badge and no bonnet badge. I need to check that.

On the Prince book cover, RM 426 has acquired a later condition grille.

My bus number (if any): RTL 960, RM 1585, RML 2667 and several RTs