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Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

Just watched the aldermen meeting when they put the override question on the ballot.

Don Conn said the $2,250,000 override would increase taxes by an increasing amount of 2 1/2% each year over the prior ones. He said a general levy override adds to the general levy and 2 1/2% is automatically added to that every year. In his long experience, the city has never taxed less than the maximum allowed by Prop 2 1/2. He apparently has no expectation they will tax less than the maximum in the future.

Van Campen contradicted him. He said the $2,250,000 override wouldn't be increased by 2 1/2% every year. He and the assessor both claimed the 2 1/2% increase would be calculated each year only on the current general levy and the $2,250,000 would be added after that calculation.

By definition a general levy override increases the general levy. A new general levy amount, which would include the override, would increase every year by 2 1/2%. If the override passes, taxes won't just increase 2,250,000 every year over what they would have. For example, in year two, if the override passes, taxes will go up $2,306,250 more for that year than if the override doesn't pass.

It seems Conn is right and Van Campen and the assessor are wrong.

Re: Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

I have yet to watch the alderman meeting on the override. But if what you said Van Campen said...then he's wrong.

But he’s been wrong about a lot of things over the years and has out right lied in the past. A few years back when Joe Casey was the superintendent, he told the school committee that he had “provisional approval” from the Ethics Commission for the committee to move forward on a vote for the Anova School when Joe Casey’s sister was the head of the school. There is no such thing as “provisional approval” from the Ethics commission! That’s a lie! The Ethics Commission NEVER gives its opinion until AFTER they have completed their investigation.

So what makes anyone think he won’t lie again! This is perhaps one of the most egregious lies of all and he should be held accountable and forced to amend his statements. Conn caught him with his pants down on this one.

Re: Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

The brazen lies and misrepresentations by this administration and most of the elected officials are compounding weekly.

The 2.5 mil will add to the base each and every year afterwards if it is approved (and it most certainly should not be!). Those that say otherwise are just lying, plain and simple (and that's nothing new for them, either). This is not a "one-time" cost to the taxpayers, and the public would be extremely foolish to believe officials who have tainted their own credibility so many times already.

Monica Medeiros has been asking the right questions for years now. Her openly contemptuous "colleagues" on the BOA won't even second most of her motions now (except when they are embarrassed into it). She has the facts about this override, and she deserves to be listened to.

Re: Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

Who cares? 2 percent or not 2 percent - It doesn't make any difference. It's a small amount of money.

Re: Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

Ask me if I care
Who cares? 2 percent or not 2 percent - It doesn't make any difference. It's a small amount of money.


Okay...then you can afford to pay my share. It will be $240 in the first installment. That's a car payment. Or the athletic fees for the year for certain families. Or a weekly grocery bill for a family. Monthly room and boar for your college kid. Or a big chunk of a social security check.

Fool!

Re: Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

Writing in response to the OP, I was referring to whether it added 2% each year or didn't. Conn and Van Campen may have a dispute, but it's a small effect.

Re: Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

Ask me if I care
Who cares? 2 percent or not 2 percent - It doesn't make any difference. It's a small amount of money.


If Don Conn is right, over 25 years the override would cost taxpayers $76,854,969.

The "small amount of money" you don't care about compounds to $20,604,969 over that time. Do you still not care about 20 Million Dollars?

Re: Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

$76 million dollars could pay for a new public safety building AND a new high school. Wouldn't mind paying for things that will last. There's no point hiring a few new public employees when nobody knows what they do.

Re: Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

It's a concern that Van Campen and Wilcock were wrong about such a basic element of Proposition 2 1/2. The aldermen voted on the override based on false information. They should be ashamed they didn't know or care to know the facts before they voted.

Van Campen said the override law is a creature of statute. There is no flexibility. He said he asked the state to clarify only whether there was any question about the proposed purposes for the money. He acted as if he knew it all and it was simple. Patrick Dello Russo was also completely involved in this, according to Van Campen. His prints are all over the misinformation, since he's the master of presenting misinformation to the aldermen.

http://vimeo.com/131164134

Watch the video at 1:36:10 to 1:38:40. Wilcock said a couple different times there isn't any compounding on the override amount and Van Campen nodded his head in agreement the whole time. Conn explained it to them, but finally allowed that maybe he could have been wrong. He must have known he was right. Don't know why he didn't press the point. Guess he didn't want to embarrass a "colleague".

Here is the primer from DOR on overrides. Nothing complicated about this.

http://www.mass.gov/dor/docs/dls/publ/misc/levylimits.pdf

Page 9: "When an override is passed, the levy limit for the year is calculated by including the amount of the override. The override results in a permanent increase in the levy limit of a community, which as part of the levy limit base, increases at the rate of 2.5 percent each year."

How can all these city employees be wrong even after Don Conn told them the right thing? Highly-paid professionals in municipal government should know these basic facts. It's their job. As a newbie, Wilcock may have been confused with a debt exclusion override, but Van Campen agreed with him. Neither one re-assessed when Conn drew attention to the truth. Didn't see Dello Russo jump up to correct the misinformation, either.

Re: Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

This does it for me! What a bunch of idiots running this city - they all should be ashamed of their ignorance on such an imporatnt matter before the public. Can we now believe anything they say from now on? I doubt it!

Re: Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

Observer
It's a concern that Van Campen and Wilcock were wrong about such a basic element of Proposition 2 1/2. The aldermen voted on the override based on false information. They should be ashamed they didn't know or care to know the facts before they voted.
Reminiscent of the 26% pay raise. The aldermen didn't want the truth. They allowed city hall employees to present wrong and incomplete information. They taxed the taxpayers more to give Dolan more money, apparently because he would open up the city health insurance system to them.

Re: Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

Disagree that the aldermen are fully complicit in the deceptions. Most of the aldermen just aren't that smart, or that engaged. Conn may be the exception - smart and engaged, but he still rolls over on nearly every issue after his obligatory soliloquies.

Dolan and Dello Russo make sure that every issue they want is presented to the aldermen and the public to make it appear the right thing to do. They are spinmeisters. They have so much experience in front of the same audience they know exactly how to play them.

Re: Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

They were wrong about the $240 each year in the future because now it's clear it will increase more and more every year. Makes one wonder what else they got wrong, accidentally or deliberately.

Could be the $240 figure is wrong even for the first year. Maybe it's really $600 a year!! Relying just on City Hall for information (misinformation), no one would know.

The local papers sure aren't checking the facts and correcting anything. Crowd-sourcing has it's problems, but at least the entire crowd isn't in anyone's pocket. Good thing Ms. Wright kept this web site going. Thank you for that.

Re: Override Dispute Between Conn and Van Campen

Better Use
$76 million dollars could pay for a new public safety building AND a new high school. Wouldn't mind paying for things that will last. There's no point hiring a few new public employees when nobody knows what they do.

A new integrated (police, fire, emergency mgmt) public safety building would cost about $15 million. It would be paid off in about 7 years at 2,250,000 dollars a year. Rather see that done now.