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Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

I make my living performing statistical analyses. There are others who may be able to do what I do for a living, but there is at least one person making deliberately misleading comparisons between Mystic Valley and Melrose schools with the shameless intent of making Melrose look better regardless of reality.

One person in particular, using the moniker, STATMAN, creates her own simplistic and useless scorecard assigning wins and losses by grade to the MCAS tests without any regard to relevance or significance of the data. For several years on this site, that person has continued to do so shamelessly, even when others have identified the flaws.

Draw your own conclusions why this person feels compelled to design a misleading scorecard in an attempt to make Melrose look better.

What's obvious is that Mystic Valley students start their schooling not knowing as much as Melrose students (as demonstrated by MCAS scores). This is likely due to a different demographic and students having less support from home. Mystic Valley students, on average, come to the school with fewer advantages than Melrose students. It's also true that Mystic Valley students score, on average, lower than the state in their early years. Mystic Valley's teaching system, however, takes those initially lower-performing students and improves them greatly over the years. Melrose doesn't do so well. In fact, Mystic Valley students start much lower than Melrose students but finish higher in both English and Math.

Melrose students start with higher MCAS scores in elementary school but don't improve nearly as well as the Mystic Valley students. The scores show Melrose apparently doesn't improve students as well as Mystic Valley and that's been consistent for many years. On average, Mystic Valley educates its students, as measured by MCAS, better than Melrose does.

The most obvious differences are in math. The most relevant math comparisons are drawn using MCAS from grade 4 through grade 8. (Grade 3 and Grade 10 scores introduce other variables, but you can use them if you like - the results are similar.)

Melrose math MCAS scores in the Proficient and Higher categories actually show a DECLINE of 7 percentage points from Grade 4 to Grade 8 (from 67% to 60%). Mystic Valley math MCAS scores show an INCREASE of 14 percentage points from Grade 4 to Grade 8. Mystic Valley's net improvement over Melrose is a whopping 21 percentage points! 14% of their students are doing better after those four years of schooling while 7% of Melrose students are doing worse after those four years of schooling.

Both systems score similarly at 8th grade. Mystic Valley has 61% proficient while Melrose has 60% proficient. Both schools still have about 40% of students not performing well, which is a situation neither school should be proud of.

STATMAN represents on her own string that Melrose is better than Mystic Valley but it's only due to the fact that Melrose students started off knowing more in third and fourth grade than Mystic Valley and than the state average. The mission of schools is to educate. Mystic Valley clearly educates its students with what they need to learn far better than Melrose does.

By the way, I am not a paid public relations person for Mystic Valley. STATMAN may resent the fact that Mystic Valley openly pays a person for that purpose. In Melrose, the mayor and superintendent continually defend the schools and attack Mystic Valley. If they would both worry about making better schools instead of spinning the schools' failures, the students maybe would learn more.

If you choose to use the Grade 3 to grade 10 differential, 84% of Melrose students in Grade 3 are proficient or higher in math. 84% of Melrose students in Grade 10 are proficient or higher in math - no difference. At Mystic Valley, 67% were proficient or higher in Grade 3 while 92% end up proficient or higher in Grade 10 - an increase of 25% of its students.

Here's the data I used for comparison. Check its accuracy for yourself. Below the math are the results for English, showing a similar pattern.

Math Percentage Proficient and Higher
Melrose Mystic Valley
Grade 3 84 67
Grade 4 67 47
Grade 5 74 67
Grade 6 65 79
Grade 7 56 65
Grade 8 60 61
Grade 10 84 92


English Proficient and Higher
Melrose Mystic Valley
Grade 3 76 60
Grade 4 69 46
Grade 5 83 63
Grade 6 72 77
Grade 7 81 92
Grade 8 89 92
Grade 10 97 99


One note - the way the state reports the scores makes it very difficult to discover how the SAME student cohorts do over time. In the comparisons above, I used what they make readily available - scores of different students in the different grades. It's been consistent for many years that Mystic Valley shows greater improvement for its students than Melrose. Please also note that there are other variables which aren't possible to take into account in this small realm. They would clarify more, but likely would not erase the pattern.

The person calling herself STATMAN is attempting to deceive others about the true state of the schools by presenting as if she is using valid analytical processes. Again, draw your own conclusions as to why she does so.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

Thank you, Analyst, for this coherent and easily graspable explanation.

Whoever "Statman" is (it sounds very much like certain of our SC members, one in particular), there is an obvious smear campaign that has been going on for years by this member, along with most of the rest of them and most of the aldermen. Instead of honesty about what our district could and should be doing better, these officials (and administrators) continually deflect and smear. The charter is their favorite target, but so is the vocational school, both of which provide valuable educational services that our district does not.

Like many others, I find the funding formula for these nontraditional schools unfair. But that really isn't relevant in evaluating our own district's problems. There would be many fewer families looking for alternatives if our own district had been honest about its obvious troubles and got down to the business of fixing them. Instead they vilify the alternative schools and even the kids who attend; nothing is sacred to these sanctimonious officials, even or more especially, children. In Melrose instead of taking an honest, sober look at what could be fixed (and that does NOT require an Override!), they bury the unflattering facts and focus instead on the collective wringing of hands over supposedly insufficient funds or target these other schools as the "reason" Melrose schools are hurting.

Having watched the basic available data for the past few years here in our district, it's completely obvious that "Analyst" is painting a true picture and with a fair vantage point, where "Statman" is on a mission to smear and deflect, and will shamelessly misrepresent the facts to do so. (Statman bears similaries to one of the chronic overbearing sports posters who routinely trash other schools' kids in order to bolster the macho notion that Melrose kids by their attendance at MHS have to be better, that the private or parochial schools kids have to be lesser except for the most exclusive of them, and putting forward the racist notions about METCO athletes, all the while forgetting that this is about KIDS, not the NFL, or Texas.)

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

good info- but how do you factor in that public schools have many many more special needs students? this fact surely impacts the scores.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

You want to know the real "dirty secret" of the school administration? They actually can provide the public with data on how each student has improved through each year in their MCAS exams over their school career which would provide invaluable data to teachers, administrators and to the public on how effective programs and the system as been. But instead we get these grouping totals from year to year and try to figure out what they mean while the "elitist inside group" get to see the real significant data and analyze its impact on their teaching procedures and techniques. The public is left out of this discussion.

There are some people in the community who have actually figured this out on their own such as Gerry Mroz and has called the Superintendent out on the carpet for withholding this information from the public in previous years, but we have a lazy press who just want to play ball with the school administration and the Mayor.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

First, regarding the prior tangent comment, I don't want my child's individual MCAS data or trends to be shared by the general public so this is not information that warrants full disclosure in my opinion.

Second, regarding the original post on this string regarding the Charter School, while the overall achievement numbers improve for Charter students over the years, the dropout rate for the school also increases. For example, this year's 2014 12th grade enrollment had 79 students from the Charter School. Originally, there were 120 students in that same class (back in 2002). So they have lost a full 1/3 of their students from K to 12.

Also, If you look at the low income students, who the Charter System is supposed to serve (students who have few options in their local district) - you can see that the Charter School only has about 20-25% of its student body is low income in the first place - and of those, a disproportional amount of low income students drop out. For example, in this year's MCAS, there were 23 low income students taking the 4th grade MCAS, but only 10 low income students took the 10th grade MCAS. Obviously these are not the same students but the trends are similar year to year.

The assumption has to be that the badly performing students are being driven out (or choosing to leave due to the academic rigor or lack of special ed services) of the Charter School and back to the sending districts. The sending districts have to take all students, which would lower their MCAS scores as compared to the Charter schools. I think if Melrose could give 1/3 of least performing students to the Charter School both schools numbers would look very different. So to compare to the two systems doesn't make sense to me.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

Let me correct a misunderstanding- individual student MCAS results are protected - by law! They cannot be divulged to the public. However, if the data are coded and encrypted to protect the student, then the data can be used. This encoding should be done so that we can actually see if student outcomes are actually being improved year to year.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

For the love of God, stop worrying about the charter school. Except for my tax dollars that get hijacked to fund the place, I could care less about the charter school.

Concentrate on Melrose, which is the only thing we can control to any degree. Maybe looking at other systems with similar demographics can be used as a loose barometer, but that's a far as it goes. Comparing ourselves to the State figures is nonsense, because the State figures include Lawrence, Lowell, New Bedford, etc.

Compare Melrose results to Melrose results to see if their is any indication of systemic improvement, as promised. All I get from those latest results is that we're still mired in mediocrity, and all the promises about improvement still haven't been kept. I see no trend towards systemic improvement at all. They can attempt to spin it anyway they want - and I still won't believe them. Their spin is designed solely to excuse their own ineptitude.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

Professional Analyst
I make my living performing statistical analyses. There are others who may be able to do what I do for a living, but there is at least one person making deliberately misleading comparisons between Mystic Valley and Melrose schools with the shameless intent of making Melrose look better regardless of reality.

What's obvious is that Mystic Valley students start their schooling not knowing as much as Melrose students... This is likely due to a different demographic and students having less support from home. Mystic Valley students, on average, come to the school with fewer advantages than Melrose students.


Interesting. So I looked at this year's MCAS data to see if that was true. Based on the 10th grade results, this is the percent of low income students in the 10th grade to the general class. It looks like Mystic Valley actually has the least amount of low income students in high school compared to all sending schools. So the statement that "MV students, on average, come to the school with fewer advantages than Melrose students" is not supported by the data. In fact, of all of the sending districts, they had the least amount of low income students.

10th grade MCAS

Mystic Valley - 10 Low Income out of 105 total (<10%)
Melrose - 41 Low Income out of 223 total (18%)
Malden - 257 Low Income out of 411 total (63%)
Stoneham - 42 Low Income out of 151 total (28%)
Wakefield - 35 Low Income out of 250 total (14%)
Medford - 89 Low Income out of 253 total (35%)
Everett - 322 Low Income out of 446 total (72%)

Similarly, Mystic Valley has the fewest amount of high need students (17% of its 10th grade students are high needs versus 30%, 68%, 42%, 20% and 78% for the sending districts).

I thought the goals of the charter schools were to serve those children with fewer advantages. Using any meaningful data, it doesn't look like Mystic Valley is meeting this goal.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

"Comparing ourselves to the State figures is nonsense, because the State figures include Lawrence, Lowell, New Bedford, etc."

That might pertain except that Melrose is now at or even below the state average in many things. It's precisely because the state averages include districts like Lawrence, that Melrose shouldn't be anywhere close to those state averages. ACT scores across the subject areas--below State Average! SAT scores similar picture. (Those are national measurements, so there's no justification at all, like the complaints about MCAS.) That means that even factoring in schools like Brockton, Chelsea, etc., Melrose scores poorly, which makes the comparisons to state averages quite significant in understanding just how low Melrose has sunk. When districts like Saugus or Stoneham, which historically couldn't compare with Melrose (which used to do considerably better across the board), are scoring better in a lot of areas, Melrose should be taking itself to task in a big way. This isn't just mediocrity. This is far worse. Melrose kids are generally well fed and have the advantages of an affluent population. These kinds of poor indicators reflect most on the complacency and parochial attitude of the parents who have allowed such a decline.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

One Thing, that's actually a good point. My comment was directed more at those who want to point to the state averages as some sort of proof that Melrose is doing better, however marginally, than that. That's nothing more than spin. Your contention that the state averages actually points to a poorer performance in Melrose is accurate.

As for MV - how is it that no one seems to get that all this debate about MV does nothing more than, in fact is designed to, distract from the real issue we face, which is the singularly poor performance of the Melrose school system? You play right into the administration's hands by buying into this "debate". The performance of MV, in fact MV as an entity, is a totally separate issue. It isn't about the nepotism or the shady goings-on there. It isn't even about the "funding formula" - it's apparent that money isn't the real problem in Melrose. How many millions have been thrown at the Melrose system in the past ten years - millions that have not made one iota of difference in the end result? Face facts. The Melrose system is broken, and pointing fingers at MV is just an easy way out of blaming the people who are truly responsible, while the end result remains the same.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

Melrose HS did much better this year in 2 of 3 categories.

Last year it was ranked 149th in English, 124th in math, and 245th in science.

This year it is ranked 43rd in English, 142nd in math, and 109th in science.

Melrose hasn't been ranked in the top 50 in any category in a few years.

The Melrose School system definitely needs to work on math across the board though.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

Wow Is Right
More of the same. How is it that no one seems to get that all this debate about MV does nothing more than, in fact is designed to, distract from the real issue we face, which is the singularly poor performance of the Melrose school system? You play right into the administration's hands by buying into this "debate". The performance of MV, in fact MV as an entity, is a totally separate issue. It isn't about the nepotism or the shady goings-on there. It isn't even about the "funding formula" - it's apparent that money isn't the real problem in Melrose. How many millions have been thrown at the Melrose system in the past ten years - millions that have not made one iota of difference in the end result? Face facts. The Melrose system is broken, and pointing fingers at MV is just an easy way out of blaming the people who are truly responsible, while the end result remains the same.


Absolutely true. Thank you.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

"The Melrose School system definitely needs to work on math across the board though."

only math? How about science (where a whopping 36% of all melrose students are in Needs Improvement/Failing), or social studies (the AP results were absymal last year!!!), or even ELA (if you want to be compared with districts that are actually doing well???)?

Heads out of Sand, Melrose Parents! The time was yesterday! You should feel guilty for your small-minded fears, support of harmful elected officials, laziness and complacency. You should be motivated to rock any and all boats. These are your kids, for heaven's sake!

How about more than 48 hours of outrage? How about the kind of show of force that patrons brought forward for Market Basket's Arthur T? Aren't your kids worth a tiny bit of backbone and energy?

How about showing up Tuesday at 5:30 when the School Committee (which just hurriedly awarded its superintendent with a 3-year contract extension and huge raise PRIOR to the release of this data) plans to unveil its "MCAS Presentation"??? Does the timing of that presentation raise any red flags? It should!

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

You are agreeing with yourself too often, poster.

How about this for improvement in the high school (both in actual scores and ranking compared to other schools) - scores being advanced plus proficient.

10th grade science:

2014
Score 84 Rank 109
2013
Score 65 Rank 245
2012
Score 65 Rank 228
2011
Score 60 Rank 232

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

HS parent
You are agreeing with yourself too often, poster.

How about this for improvement in the high school (both in actual scores and ranking compared to other schools) - scores being advanced plus proficient.

10th grade science:

2014
Score 84 Rank 109
2013
Score 65 Rank 245
2012
Score 65 Rank 228
2011
Score 60 Rank 232



It's still pathetic, especially looking at Science across the district (or math or anything else, frankly). If you are compelled to defend this district, then you may as well just make up stuff the way the administration does (and is guaranteed to do Tuesday night and at all their so-called fake "forums". That kind of metric is just another pathetic whitewash of student outcomes that are indefensible.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

From what I observe at the Lincoln school, Melrose has some significant turnover of its low-income population. Many students are here and then gone next year. New families can't enter the charter school after kindergarten so there may be some attrition due to mobility. Does anyone know where we can look up the percent low income at the charter school in kindergarten to see what percent they start with? I'm told they do a random lottery. Do as many low income as others enter the lottery in the first place?

Someone keeps posting that charter schools were designed for low income students. Charter schools weren't designed to be schools for low income students. They were supposed to be laboratory schools to try out things the public schools weren't considering. The state allows more to be placed in areas with lower-performing schools, so maybe that's why you think they are supposed to be for low income. Whether you like Mystic Valley or not, you have to admit some kids there get a good education.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

Tuesday 5:30 MCAS Presentation
"The Melrose School system definitely needs to work on math across the board though."

only math? How about science (where a whopping 36% of all melrose students are in Needs Improvement/Failing), or social studies (the AP results were absymal last year!!!), or even ELA (if you want to be compared with districts that are actually doing well???)?

Heads out of Sand, Melrose Parents! The time was yesterday! You should feel guilty for your small-minded fears, support of harmful elected officials, laziness and complacency. You should be motivated to rock any and all boats. These are your kids, for heaven's sake!

How about more than 48 hours of outrage? How about the kind of show of force that patrons brought forward for Market Basket's Arthur T? Aren't your kids worth a tiny bit of backbone and energy?

How about showing up Tuesday at 5:30 when the School Committee (which just hurriedly awarded its superintendent with a 3-year contract extension and huge raise PRIOR to the release of this data) plans to unveil its "MCAS Presentation"??? Does the timing of that presentation raise any red flags? It should!


Yes, where is the outrage? If the Melrose Ed Foundation can get 200 people to its private, by-invitation-only "forum" about the schools up at Mt. Hood, then why can't the rest of us ordinary folk show up at our People's forum--the School Committee meeting? Oh yeah, that's right, we aren't welcome there, either. 5:30 for an MCAS presentation? Seriously? That is downright brazen in its contempt!

(Most of us are not favored by that pompous inappropriate "foundation" even for admittance to their "nonprofit"--as in using tax dollars and private dollars with equal abandon and unequal transparency. We should be outraged to learn that they are getting money straight out of the tax coffers--$10,000 a year, which they later hand out like candy in what they call "grants"--in addition to a tax-exempt status, and yet they have their functions about the PUBLIC schools in a non-public venue. But that's another whole big can of only-in-Melrose kaka.)

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

mhs
HS parent
You are agreeing with yourself too often, poster.

How about this for improvement in the high school (both in actual scores and ranking compared to other schools) - scores being advanced plus proficient.

10th grade science:

2014
Score 84 Rank 109
2013
Score 65 Rank 245
2012
Score 65 Rank 228
2011
Score 60 Rank 232



It's still pathetic, especially looking at Science across the district (or math or anything else, frankly). If you are compelled to defend this district, then you may as well just make up stuff the way the administration does (and is guaranteed to do Tuesday night and at all their so-called fake "forums". That kind of metric is just another pathetic whitewash of student outcomes that are indefensible.


I am not compelled to defend the district. There are still areas that need improvement for sure. However, I was refuting this statement:

"Compare Melrose results to Melrose results to see if their is any indication of systemic improvement, as promised."

The HS science scores (and the HS English scores, which have also put the high school into the top 50 schools in the state) are a clear indication that there has been systemic improvement over the years. Also, if you look at the elementary schools like the Roosevelt and the Lincoln, there has been improvement over the past few years and they are both level 1 schools. You can point out as many negatives that you want, but there are areas of improvement too.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

Transient
From what I observe at the Lincoln school, Melrose has some significant turnover of its low-income population. Many students are here and then gone next year. New families can't enter the charter school after kindergarten so there may be some attrition due to mobility. Does anyone know where we can look up the percent low income at the charter school in kindergarten to see what percent they start with? I'm told they do a random lottery. Do as many low income as others enter the lottery in the first place?

Someone keeps posting that charter schools were designed for low income students. Charter schools weren't designed to be schools for low income students. They were supposed to be laboratory schools to try out things the public schools weren't considering. The state allows more to be placed in areas with lower-performing schools, so maybe that's why you think they are supposed to be for low income. Whether you like Mystic Valley or not, you have to admit some kids there get a good education.



For the Kindergarten class of 2014, 26% of the kids are designated low income according to the DOE website. Kids do get in from the wait list to the Charter School if a child drops out after K. Usually it is the siblings of current students that get in. So if a low income/high needs child drops out due to lack of support, they could be replaced by a sibling of a current Charter School student that is having success.

To answer the statement that charter schools were not designed for low income students, I refer you to the MA Charter Public School Association website:

http://www.masscharterschools.org/about-charter-schools

On their website, they state, "More than 45,000 students are on wait lists—no surprise given that Massachusetts charter schools are closing the persistent achievement gap between rich and poor." They go on to say, "Choice is especially important in urban areas, where most charter schools are located. Charter schools attract and serve a disproportionate number of the state’s poor, minority, and/or academically challenged kids."

Charter schools should be serving low income, minority, and academically challenged kids. But Mystic Valley is not.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

HS parent
mhs
It's still pathetic, especially looking at Science across the district (or math or anything else, frankly). If you are compelled to defend this district, then you may as well just make up stuff the way the administration does (and is guaranteed to do Tuesday night and at all their so-called fake "forums". That kind of metric is just another pathetic whitewash of student outcomes that are indefensible.


I am not compelled to defend the district. There are still areas that need improvement for sure. However, I was refuting this statement:

"Compare Melrose results to Melrose results to see if their is any indication of systemic improvement, as promised."


So what, exactly, did you refute? You cherry picked one subject and one class. You did not "refute" the contention that the system wide results for all subjects are still no better than mediocre, which was the entire statement I made. I suspect you either: 1. have a dog in the hunt, or 2. are exactly the person the administration tailors their tactics and propaganda towards, because you are desperate to believe what they are telling you is the truth.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

The question was for "any" indication. I do believe one example is all that is needed to give "any" indication.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

Wow Is Right
Compare Melrose results to Melrose results to see if their is any indication of systemic improvement, as promised. All I get from those latest results is that we're still mired in mediocrity.


HS Parent
The question was for "any" indication. I do believe one example is all that is needed to give "any" indication.


Really? So cherry picking one class from one school is your idea of an indicator of systemic improvement? Not even an administration flack would attempt to sell that bag of garbage. Sad.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

Wow Is Right
One Thing, that's actually a good point. My comment was directed more at those who want to point to the state averages as some sort of proof that Melrose is doing better, however marginally, than that. That's nothing more than spin. Your contention that the state averages actually points to a poorer performance in Melrose is accurate.

As for MV - how is it that no one seems to get that all this debate about MV does nothing more than, in fact is designed to, distract from the real issue we face, which is the singularly poor performance of the Melrose school system? You play right into the administration's hands by buying into this "debate". The performance of MV, in fact MV as an entity, is a totally separate issue. It isn't about the nepotism or the shady goings-on there. It isn't even about the "funding formula" - it's apparent that money isn't the real problem in Melrose. How many millions have been thrown at the Melrose system in the past ten years - millions that have not made one iota of difference in the end result? Face facts. The Melrose system is broken, and pointing fingers at MV is just an easy way out of blaming the people who are truly responsible, while the end result remains the same.


Yes on all counts. Wish we could have afforded another alternative, but then again, no one should have to be thinking that way in a town like Melrose (which is a town with a small-town attitude, no matter how citified it pretends to be). Our kids work hard and will do okay (graduate doing okay), but certainly a rude shock to get out there next to other better-prepared students (from other PUBLIC schools) and learn just how badly Melrose schools did in teaching the fundamentals. Certain specialty areas and certain teachers--Dr. P and Dr. L--were and are at the top no matter and always compare well. But these are the few exceptions. The administrators across the board are anti-intellectual and barely literate (listen to them for 5 minutes if you can stand it or get past the pretentious jargon). These are the ones doing the hiring. No top-flight educator would be impressed by them or want to come work in the district, especially if they do even a five-minute investigation. That means that the district will be stuck with sub-par staff for a long time, because the foxes are guarding/evaluating the chickens, and will only put forward for renewal those who play the game. Take non-existent teacher morale into consideration and you have a wretched cycle that will take a long time to turn around, even once this batch of losers is gone (and go to greener pastures they will, using all of us as pawns in their lucrative Peterson Principle "pathways").

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

If that is the case, then you need to pay the teachers more, to overcome the bad atmosphere. I know plenty of people who accept less ideal working conditions because they are drawing a bigger paycheck. So I agree with you we need an override to pay our teachers more.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

pay our teachers more
If that is the case, then you need to pay the teachers more, to overcome the bad atmosphere. I know plenty of people who accept less ideal working conditions because they are drawing a bigger paycheck. So I agree with you we need an override to pay our teachers more.


Maybe the teachers should just do their jobs better! A majority of my kids' teachers have been lazy. They do nothing extra--everything is a burden to them. If dismissal is at 2:15 they get the kids ready at 2:05. Why not teach until the bill rings then dismiss? My neighbors that teach are home before the kids arrive home. Money is not the answer but more demands and requirements in the teachers contract is the answer.

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

pay our teachers more
If that is the case, then you need to pay the teachers more, to overcome the bad atmosphere. I know plenty of people who accept less ideal working conditions because they are drawing a bigger paycheck. So I agree with you we need an override to pay our teachers more.


Under what rock have you been living? This past year the School Committee voted a new teacher's contract with huge raises. A rookie teacher can earn up to a 25% increase jumping up the "steps" in the first three years (just like our ridiculous Mr. 26% mayor). Teacher's pay is not the issue at all, and don't believe that garbage when you hear it. Most of the good teachers (few are left) in Melrose have earned a lot less and didn't mind because they valued being here when it was a supportive teaching atmosphere and a decent district overall. Now with that incentive absolutely gone, the only teachers happy, regardless of pay, are the suck-ups who are favored by the low-class (no-class) administration.

Oh yeah, and this was the year that the same School Committee voted, what was it, 3 times for a contract they didn't even have a copy of or had ever seen! (Mayor: "But it's 99% like the old contract...." so who needs to see it?! How many ways can you spell WRONG!) How's that for responsible leadership! Then they just voted to extend the superintendent's contract for another 3 years, gave her a huge raise (now up to something like $170000) after giving her a blank check of $40,000 to dish out to her favorite administrators for their raises.

No amount of additional money will make anything better when you have this shameless bunch of incompetents "leading" the way!

Re: Mystic Valley Consistently Improves Students More than Melrose

I'm glad you support an override. I do too.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

This would be funny if it weren’t so outrageous. The braintrust in Maplewood square in Malden is working overtime to get their spin on this. “Professional Analyst” is taking issue with using the state provided data for comparing districts. This is exactly what is being done across the state, district by district. Everyone wants to measure themselves against the top districts in the state. If you look at the posts in the “Spring 2014…” string on this site there are at least 20 comments by posters using the Melrose scores as a tool for comparison, and rightfully so. However, on this string “Professional Analyst” takes issue with using this as a comparison because the numbers don’t favor the Mystic Valley Charter School. This is absurd. “Professional Analyst” says that I “create my own simplistic and useless scorecard.” Uhhm, no, the state created the scorecard, I just want to be sure that they are reported accurately. Apparently “Professional Analyst” does not like me pointing out that Melrose has a higher percentage of students in Advanced or Proficient in 11 of the 20 categories tested. OK, well if he/she does not like that, how about this? The state provides scores for All Grades in English, Math and Science. The results for the “All Grades” Scores in Advanced and Proficient are follows:

Adv/Prof Mel MV
Eng 81 75
Math 69 68
Sci 65 54

I didn’t create these categories, the state did and the Melrose district is ahead in all three. What is getting the ire up of the MV crowd is this is the first time that the Melrose district was higher in all three categories. “Professional Analyst” wants to stop the presses and discuss individual progression, however does not respond when someone brings up the issue of special education. If this person is a professional analyst it will not take them long to see the alarming rate at which special education students leave that school.

However, the most laughable is the concept that Melrose kids show up to school much smarter and it takes the charter school students a longer time to learn. Is this a serious post? First off, how about an honest admission that the Melrose elementary schools do a better job at K thru 3 than the charter school? It’s a tough pill to swallow and despite the hallowed waiting list for the charter school, Melrose Elementary schools do a better job. Another fact - look at the attrition rate of the MV charter school compared to the sending districts and include the percentage of special education students in that analysis. The special ed kids are leaving the charter school and going back to the district at a disproportionate rate and creating a skew in the data. Nevertheless, Melrose continues to outperform the charter school despite this skew.

What is really happening here is that the Mystic Valley Charter school made a big splash with their first few classes when the graduating classes were, at times as small as 30-35 students. Now that their class sizes are increasing they can no longer ride the coat tails of a few top students and their results are beginning to decline. Too bad, facts are facts.

If you want to discuss why taxpayers should focus on the charter school in addition to the districts, we can do a whole string on that. Until that time, the state-provided facts speak for themselves.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

However, you let the Professional Analyst off the hook in a couple of spots. For starters, the Mystic Charter School is basically a haven for middle class families and their kids that don't like or fit into the public school environment. Don't let them make the case that charter schools serve the under privileged. As pointed out by another poster, Melrose has a higher percentage of lower income students to educate. Add the percentage of special education students mixed into the averages that Melrose educates and then compare the scores. Secondly, The Professional Analyst wants to make a comparison at the high school level without acknowledging the massive amount of kids who ditched the charter school before high school. The Mystic Valley Charter school does an OK job at getting a bunch of homogenous white kids to do decent on MCAS before they go on to Public Colleges and Universities. It's a place where kids and families that don't fit into public schools go and hide. You can't compare the charter school to MHS. The top 80 kids in each grade at MHS completely destroy the class at the charter school academically and athletically. And to the folks who post that this isn't about the charter school, don't forget that this blog was brought into Melrose by charter school parents for the sole purpose of comparing the schools and maligning the City of Melrose.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

Great Post STATMAN
And to the folks who post that this isn't about the charter school, don't forget that this blog was brought into Melrose by charter school parents for the sole purpose of comparing the schools and maligning the City of Melrose.


That's actually not accurate, if you are speaking of Ms. Wright, who has been vocal in her criticism of MV. In any case, I maintain that the biggest problem we face is not MV - it is the underperformace and decline of our own system, which is the only thing we have any semblance of control over. For the record, I find the goings-on at MV abhorrent, especially since I have first-hand experience dealing with the charlatan that runs the place. I'd be happy to see MV go away, but any discussion of the failings of the Melrose system that wanders off on the MV tangent is useless, since rather than offer an honest evaluation of the difficulties in Melrose and what ought to be done about them, all it does is attempt to cloud the issue by blaming someone other than those that ought to assume the blame. That's a tactic right out of the administration's playbook. If you want to discuss MV, than do so in a dedicated string.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

"don't forget that this blog was brought into Melrose by charter school parents for the sole purpose of comparing the schools and maligning the City of Melrose."

What an unmitigated load of crap.

Wrong and wrong on all counts.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

To "Wow" - This is a string dedicated to discussing the performance of Melrose vs. The Charter School. Nobody is trying to cloud any issues. This is why I set up a separate string and I'm sure "Professional Analyst" (as wrong as he/she was), was thinking the same thing when this string was set up. There are other strings that discuss Melrose's performance, feel free to post on those strings. In fact, most comments on those strings use a similar comparison to the comparison I used when I demonstrated the Melrose District is outperforming the Mystic Valley Charter school.
While I appreciate and agree with your comments about the goings on at the charter school; I find it odd for you to criticize folks for commenting on that issue here since that is the exact topic this string was set up to discuss.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

I'm aware this string was intended to invite such a comparison. That doesn't change my point that such a comparison is meaningless at best. The same misdirection seems to surface in every string where an attempt is made to discuss the failings of the Melrose schools. I'm not criticizing anyone for discussing it here in this string. I'm criticizing those who engage in such an apples/oranges comparison when such a discussion does absolutely nothing to expose or correct the failings of our own system, which is rally the meat of the matter. The leadership in this city has for years pointed fingers at MV as a reason why our own schools underperform. It's an irrelevant smokescreen when they do it, and it's equally irrelevant when it's done here. Our schools aren't mediocre because of MV. They're mediocre because of poor leadership, poor programs, poor teachers, and an apathetic or misguided public. So why do posters continue to beat a dead horse?

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

To "Wow" - Please reread the last sentence of your post at 4:52pm yesterday. You instructed us to have discussions about MV vs Melrose on a dedicated string. That is exactly what we are doing. While that may not serve your desire to criticize and/or analyze the Melrose results, it is a valid comparison and I would suggest the most valid comparison for parents of current and future public school students. As a resident of Melrose you have 2 public school choices, the district or the Mystic Valley charter school. The MV does a very good job of marketing and creating an illusion of good results, however, the data clearly shows the Melrose district outperforming the Mystic Valley Charter school, especially at the elementary school level, a factor that is very important to parents of toodlers that are now considering their public school choices.
While you accuse others of trying to divert attention from the Melrose district’s results; I suggest that it is you that is trying to divert attention from this discussion. I just quickly counted and there are at least 5 other strings that deal with the MCAS results of the district where you could voice your view. I would invite you to talk about the district’s MCAS results there.. There is a lot of dialogue analyzing the results, both negative and positive, however, you have now taken the time to post here twice. I wonder why. You say it is meaningless and want to discuss the “meat of the matter”, however, for parents considering public school choices the discussion here is even more relevant than the discussions taking place on the other strings…most of which are lazy and uninformed.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

"Statman" is either a local official or aligned closely with the pack of fools this city has elected, with One Agenda. There is no point in beating that dead agenda because that person is dead set on diverting attention away from the miserable performance of our own district, at literally any cost. Vilifying families who choose the charter school is what it's all about, because they are in effect "siphoning" district funds. And clearly it's all about funds, right?

Best to let "Stat" person be hoist with their own petard. Unfortunately that means that things in the district will have to get even worse before more parents will finally wake up to the fraud that they have bought into for the past decade. By then there won't be any master teachers left in the district, and many more of the most motivated students will have left, also. The population will swing more and more towards those who are either naturally impaired or impaired as a result of the years of neglect in this wretched school system.

You are correct that discussions about the charter school are irrelevant to the bigger discussion that should be happening about our own school system. So leave this "Stat(person" to her or his own devices ranting into the wind. The fewer people who play ball in that poster's court, the better.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

Haha, come on this string to say that I am diverting attention from the other strings. Makes a lot of sense to me. I've put the stats out there, they are plain to see, despite "Professional Analysts'" attempt to spin the numbers to the Charter School's favor. That is the only point I was trying to make, no more and no less. It has been made and hopefully parents of toddlers will take note of how much better Melrose does than Mystic Valley (especially at the elementary levels) as they review the public school options.
If you or "Wow" have other points to make about the districts results, there is plenty of opportunity to do that on other strings. I won't distract you with this issue elsewhere. Also, as much as I find it laughable that you criticize me for diverting attention on a string dedicated to the specific issue being discussed, I am happy that you keep posting here as it keeps attention on this important topic.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

Statman, as you well know, there is no "equality" between the two "choices". Enrollment at MV is limited to lottery winners and legacies, correct? For the majority of parents, MV is not an option, since they either don't "win" the lottery, or aren't dealing with a "legacy". Their public school "choice" is limited to the Melrose system. For them, any discussion or comparison between Melrose and MV is pointless, and detracts from the real issue, which is the performance of the Melrose schools. MV is a sideshow. I know you know this, yet you and others persist in insisting on this pointless comparison. Whether it's your intent or not, it does distract from the most important issue we face, the non-performance of Melrose schools, and in that sense, it does serve as a smokescreen, and although I don't know if you are an administration flack or not, anything that deflects attention away from the real issue plays right into the administration's hands.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

While there is a lottery system; one must choose to enter the lottery. Is that not a correct statement? Nobody forces anyone to apply for the lottery. Parents do it willingly and, in most cases, they do so because of the misinformation related to the Mystic Valley Charter School. Fortunately, this site allows us to spread the word that Melrose Outperforms the Mystic Valley Charter School on the MCAS. Thanks again for keeping the string alive.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

Forget it, Wow. Statman plainly either doesn't get it at all, or gets it totally. Like you, I could care less about MV. To characterize their admission process as a choice is absurd. It's luck, period, unless you're a legacy, then it's rigged. I wish I could choose to be lucky - I'd be at the store buying lottery tickets right now. Most people I know are only really interested in the state of Melrose schools, not MV.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

So then you agree that it is a choice to apply for the lottery?
Assuming you agree with that, I would think you would also agree that it is useful for parents that are considering applying for the lottery understand that Melrose actually outperforms the Mystic Valley charter school on the MCAS.
Thanks for checking in on this string, even though you "could care less" about the charter school.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

Your rants are really getting tedious. Rather than use the moniker "Statman" you should be using "Spinmeister".

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

STATMAN
So then you agree that it is a choice to apply for the lottery?
Assuming you agree with that, I would think you would also agree that it is useful for parents that are considering applying for the lottery understand that Melrose actually outperforms the Mystic Valley charter school on the MCAS.
Thanks for checking in on this string, even though you "could care less" about the charter school.

Analyst showed the charter school students started lower in MCAS in 3rd grade but finished higher in 10th grade. Absent any evidence the data is inaccurate (I didn't check) they improved far more in school than the Melrose students.

Statman keeps claiming "Melrose outperforms" the charter school on the MCAS. The MCAS results the analyst posted show that not only is statman just wrong but she can't handle the truth.

It really is silly for statman to make up a mindless box score of the various tests given at the different grades and declare Melrose the winner only because the Mystic Valley students knew so much less when they were younger. That would be as silly as tallying up which only which baseball team got more runs in each inning and declaring the winner as the one who won more innings instead of the one who got the most runs overall.

Melrose kids are smart and get help from good homes when they are young and the parents can help them. They already know much in 3rd and 4th grade from their parents. What matters to most parents is how well their kids are actually educated from when they start in school to when they finish.

Melrose schools didn't help their students improve as much as the charter school did theirs. By that measure, students going to the charter are being educated better. If I had to do it all over again, and my kids were starting out now, I would send them to the charter.

Also,the perpetual turmoil and drama in the Melrose schools are harmful to the kids and it doesn't seem like it's going to get better any time soon.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

Statman is another alter-ego for the Vuvu ranter. Both believe repeating false claims over and over while attacking others makes them the winner (at least in her mind). She must keep a box score of how many posts she makes to prove she wins.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

STATMAN
So then you agree that it is a choice to apply for the lottery?


Of course. You can either apply or not apply. That's a clear choice. Either or. You have no clearly defined choice with regard to admission, as you well know, regardless of your refusal to admit it. You can say "I'm sending my child to the Melrose system." and be 100% certain that will occur. You can't say "I'm sending my child to MV." and be 100%, or even 50% certain that will occur. Therefore, the choice is not yours. When there are other factors involved in deciding the outcome, it's not a clear choice. Only when you have an acceptance letter from MV does it then become a clear choice.

Since all of this discussion is meaningless with regard to addressing the failings of the Melrose system, which is what I am really concerned about, I'm just going to ignore all your future postings, since it's clear you have no interest in addressing those failings. I, for one, would be happy if MV would just dry up and blow away.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

So you do agree that you can choose to apply. Great. Now, despite the attempts above to spin the data, you will also agree that Melrose has a higher percentage of children in Advanced and Proficient than the MV Charter school. That is something that is not obvious to others because of the spin and misinformation put out there by MV supporters.
For instance, go on the other recent MCAS strings and you will see comparisons of the Melrose District against Stoneham, Malden, Wakefield, Belmont, Arlington, Winchester and many other neighboring districts. Those are valid comparisons and comments. What you won't find there is objections to those comparisons since they are often done to paint Melrose in bad light. However, on this string, which compares Melrose to the Mystic Valley Charter school; everyone seems to take issues with the straightforward comparison of the districts. You all go so far as to invent new analysis saying that Melrose kids start out smarter than the charter school students instead of, heavens forbid, acknowledging that the Melrose District does a better job at the elementary levels. Well, I choose to discuss this comparison here and look at it the way the state chooses to look at it as well as posters on the other strings. A straightforward comparison of Melrose v. Mystic Valley shows that Melrose has a higher percentage of students in the Advanced or Proficient categories. I’m happy to keep this going as long as others want to come on here and talk about it.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

As you may or may not have guessed by now, nobody but you gives a $hit about your stupid comparison, except to wish you'd shut up about it, since it's completely and incontrovertibly irrelevant.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

Thanks for taking the time to come on this string, dedicated to the comparison of Melrose vs. the Mystic Valley Charter school, to give your opinion on the relevancy of the comparison. While I am sure that many parents on the waiting list would disagree with your view, I’m glad you decided to keep this string alive. I am grateful that we can continue to discuss how Melrose had a higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient on the MCAS than the Mystic Valley Charter School (again). Thanks for keeping it alive and I look forward to you reply.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

You're welcome, I'm sure. I actually have re-thought my earlier comment, and have come to the inescapable conclusion that the longer this string does stay alive, the easier it becomes to determine that you are a complete moron. Thank you.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

There is no question Melrose Public Schools are a better alternative for kids than the charter school. Smarter kids, better academic choices, better extra-curricular, and yes, better MCAS scores. The entire size of a Charter High School class fills two classrooms at MHS. Give me a break on trying to compare the two of them.

But lets just say the charter school does prepare their kids better for MCAS. Who cares. Have you ever seen the Charter School Bus. It's comes directly from the island of misfit toys, and the parents waiting for them are right out of the barroom scene from the first Star Wars movie. A legit freak show.

I'll take my chances my kid can pass the watered down 10th grade MCAS exam by the time they finish the 12th grade.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

Misfits
Give me a break on trying to compare the two of them.


Absolutely right, and given you also feel that way, wouldn't it make more sense to put all our efforts into improving things in Melrose rather than waste time and energy thinking about MV? Who cares what happens there?

Misfits
The parents waiting for them are right out of the barroom scene from the first Star Wars movie. A legit freak show.


Now that's funny.

Re: Melrose has higher percentage of students in Advanced and Proficient than Mystic Valley

My tax dollars pay for it, therefore I care. Oddly, I might feel better if the school performed better, but my dollars go there and the Melrose district still outperforms the MV Charter school on the MCAS.

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